Discussion:
conservative/libertarian/fascist darling is most likely insane:when you live in a alternate reality, do not be to surprised if your brain fights
(too old to reply)
Nickname unavailable
2011-07-19 19:09:34 UTC
Permalink
conservative/libertarian/fascist darling is most likely insane:when
you live in a alternate reality, do not be to surprised if your brain
fights back:Bachmann Campaign Disputes Report That Migraine Headaches
Incapacitate Candidate



http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/07/19/michele-bachmann-migraine-headaches_n_902530.html





Michele Bachmann Campaign Disputes Report That Migraine Headaches
'Incapacitate' Candidate

First Posted: 7/19/11 11:24 AM ET Updated: 7/19/11 01:23 PM ET


Republican presidential candidate Michele Bachmann's campaign is
pushing back against a story published online by the Daily Caller on
Monday night suggesting the conservative congresswoman suffers from
headaches that can "incapacitate" her for days.
Dave Dziok, a former communications director for Bachmann, told the
Daily Caller that when he informed the congresswoman of his intention
to leave his job with her after more than two years, Bachmann
experienced medical symptoms that landed her in the hospital "within
24 hours." Dziok said that he and his former boss were on relatively
good terms at the time of his departure.
Dziok declined to elaborate further on the situation that unfolded,
but suggested that the episode experienced by Bachmann should not be
received as a cause for concern.
Citing three individuals who have worked in close proximity to
Bachmann, the Daily Caller reports that Dziok's account was not an
isolated incident, and that Bachmann suffers from migraines on a
regular basis and has been hospitalized multiple times as a result.
When asked by Politico about the story, Bachmann spokeswoman Alice
Stewart reiterated what she told the Daily Caller in response to the
contents of its report.
"She suffers from migraines and they’re under control with medicine,"
said Stewart before going on to dispute that the headaches can prove
"incapacitating" for the congresswoman. She told Politico that claims
included in the story are "bogus" and that she has never witnessed her
boss experiencing medical symptoms as described in the piece.
Bachmann formally declared her candidacy for president of the United
States in the key early primary state of Iowa last month.


"We can win in 2012 and we will," she said in launching her campaign.
"Our voice has been growing louder and stronger. And it is made up of
Americans from all walks of life like a three-legged stool. It's the
peace through strength Republicans, and I'm one of them, it's fiscal
conservatives, and I'm one of them, and it's social conservatives, and
I'm one of them. It's the Tea Party movement and I'm one of them."
Since her announcement, Bachmann has found success in connecting with
voters on the right side of the aisle and has made headway in the
polls. The Republican hopeful, however, also hasn't failed to stir
controversy on the trail.
A new survey out from Public Policy Polling shows Bachmann running at
the head of the Republican presidential primary pack.
Click here to read the report released by the Daily Caller.
Bret Cahill
2011-07-19 21:02:36 UTC
Permalink
It is _literally_ painful for her to think.
Post by Nickname unavailable
conservative/libertarian/fascist darling is most likely insane:when
you live in a alternate reality, do not be to surprised if your brain
fights back:Bachmann Campaign Disputes Report That Migraine Headaches
Incapacitate Candidate
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/07/19/michele-bachmann-migraine-he...
Michele Bachmann Campaign Disputes Report That Migraine Headaches
'Incapacitate' Candidate
First Posted: 7/19/11 11:24 AM ET Updated: 7/19/11 01:23 PM ET
Republican presidential candidate Michele Bachmann's campaign is
pushing back against a story published online by the Daily Caller on
Monday night suggesting the conservative congresswoman suffers from
headaches that can "incapacitate" her for days.
Dave Dziok, a former communications director for Bachmann, told the
Daily Caller that when he informed the congresswoman of his intention
to leave his job with her after more than two years, Bachmann
experienced medical symptoms that landed her in the hospital "within
24 hours."
. . . .
Post by Nickname unavailable
A new survey out from Public Policy Polling shows Bachmann running at
the head of the Republican presidential primary pack.
Click here to read the report released by the Daily Caller.
Nickname unavailable
2011-07-20 00:22:58 UTC
Permalink
It is _literally_  painful for her to think.
it cannot be easy trying to suppress reality.
Michael Price
2011-07-22 10:16:35 UTC
Permalink
It is _literally_  painful for her to think.
 it cannot be easy trying to suppress reality.
Yeah but seeing as you are claiming that migraines are
evidence of mental illness you've definitely suceeded.
That and the fact you think North Korea is a free trade
economy is proof positive. So anyway you were going to tell me
how libertarianism and fascism were "identical". You know seeing
as they are diametrically opposed on gay rights, racial preferences,
imperialism, drug policy etc.
Nickname unavailable
2011-07-23 21:07:26 UTC
Permalink
It is _literally_  painful for her to think.
 it cannot be easy trying to suppress reality.
  Yeah but seeing as you are claiming that migraines are
evidence of mental illness you've definitely suceeded.
That and the fact you think North Korea is a free trade
economy is proof positive.  So anyway you were going to tell me
how libertarianism and fascism were "identical".  You know seeing
as they are diametrically opposed on gay rights, racial preferences,
imperialism, drug policy etc.
you have been shown repeatedly. yet you claim ignorance, is that a
sign of a mental illness? could be:)



http://www.spiritone.com/~gdy52150/chpt1.htm

What Fascism Is & Isn't


No other word causes so much misunderstanding, confusion, and heated
debate in politics than fascism. The term has been applied to many
individuals such as McCarthy, Hoover, and others. It is frequently
used to describe government policies and government themselves, often
incorrectly. What then is fascism exactly? Webster's Dictionary
defines it as: "A government system marked by a centralized
dictatorship, stringent socioeconomic controls and belligerent
nationalism." But the author takes exception with that definition. At
best, the definition is vague and abstract. Nor does the definition
seem capable of taking into all forms of fascism.
There is a resurgent, widespread attempt by the far right to label
fascism as a form of socialism. Fredrick von Hayek was the first to
attempt labeling the Nazis as socialists in his book The Road to
Serfdom published in 1944.70 The hard right quickly adopted it, as it
allowed the hard right to escape the charges that they had much in
common with the Nazis.2 Such endeavors are not only silly, but
dishonest as well and represent an attempt by the far right to
distance themselves for their earlier support of Hitler.
Hayek's book is based on two erroneous assumptions from the very
beginning. He first assumes that fascism and communism are one and the
same, as they are both totalitarian systems. This makes about as much
sense as calling a maple tree a pine tree because both are trees. His
second erroneous assumption lays in his belief that only socialism or
liberalism leads to totalitarian systems. In fact, all political
systems can lead to totalitarian systems and all political systems are
inherently unstable, as is any system created by man.
From there, Hayek takes severe liberties with history. For instance,
he goes on to claim that by deliberate policy the United States by
allowed the growth of cartels and syndicates after 1878.71 Indeed this
date and time period is significant, but not for a move towards
socialism or liberalism. Rather, it's the opposite a move towards
fascism and corporate rule. Even a reader with a rudimentary knowledge
of American history would recognize this time frame as the beginning
of the robber baron era and laissez faire economics, precisely the
type of economic policy Hayek holds in utmost esteem.
 Hayek offers little proof to support his conclusions; in fact the
book is devoid of any proof or even examples to support his findings.
The book degenerates into an argument based upon unsubstantiated
assertion. He argues against the nation state and proposes a
supernational authority or world federation made up of the financial
elite. In essence, Hayek proposes a world made up of sovereign
corporations accountable to no one. Not only did Hayek take severe
liberties with American history, he ignored the very nature of fascism
in Germany and Italy.
In various speeches made shortly after the March on Rome, Mussolini
stated, "We must take from state authority those functions for which
it is incompetent and which it performs badly... I believe the state
should renounce its economic functions, especially those carried out
through monopolies, because the state is incompetent in such
matters... We must put an end to state railways, state postal service
and state insurance." The state returned large monopolies to the
private sector after returning them to profitability such as the
Consortium of Match Manufactures, privatized the insurance system in
1923, the telephone system in 1925, and many of the public works.
In Germany the Nazis announced they would end nationalization of
private industries when they seized power. In 1932, Hitler returned
control of the Gelsenkirhen company to private hands and in 1936
returned the stock of "United Steel" to private hands. Throughout
1933-1936, the Nazi returned to private hands the control of several
banks: Dresdner, Danat, Commerz and Privatbank, the Deutsche Bank, and
several others. In 1936, the steamship company Deutcher Schiff and
Maschinenbau was returned to the private sector. In 1934, Dr. Schacht,
the Nazi Minister of Economy, gave instructions to hasten the
privatization of municipal enterprises. These enterprises were
especially coveted by the rich industrialists, as they had been
prosperous even during the depression.
Both in fascist Italy and Nazi Germany, the tax system was changed to
one favoring business and the wealthy. The Nazis allowed industries to
deduct from their taxable income all sums used to purchase new
equipment. Rich families employing a maid were allowed to count the
maid as a dependent child and reap the tax benefit. In Italy, the
Minister of Finance stated: "We have broken with the practice of
persecuting capital."73
 Such programs, catering to big business and the rich elite, are more
akin to the policies of the Reagan Administration than it is to any
liberal administration including FDR's. Likewise, it was the rich
industrialists that were behind the fascist movement in the United
States during the 1930s. Thus it is no surprise that the right wing
attempts to try and label fascism as socialism in trying to distance
themselves from their previous support of fascism.
Perhaps the only redeeming feature in Hayek's book is his
acknowledgement of environmental problems.72 Indeed this is
significant, considering the book was first published in the 1940s,
long before the birth of the environmental movement. Hayek readily
acknowledges the problem of industrial pollution and the harmful
effects of deforestation, yet he stops short of any meaningful
solution. Instead of offering a viable solution Hayek condemns
government regulation and would allow market forces to provide the
solution. However, it was these same market forces that produced the
problem. We have plenty of proof of such a fool hearty approach both
here and globally. As late as the 1970s rivers caught fire in the
United States, cities were smog stricken and harmful pollutants were
damaging the environment world wide. Today we face the problems of
global warming and ozone depletion, and the problem of environmental
estrogens, which has the potential of being even more threatening than
both global warming and ozone depletion.
But perhaps the most damning of all evidence that Hayek was dead wrong
comes from the implementation of an economic system based on his
beliefs. Hayek later taught at the University of Chicago, the same
university that trained the "Boys from Chicago" who were the economic
brains behind the fascist regime of Pinochet in Chile. There is no
question in the matter that under Pinochet, Chile was indeed fascist.
More alarming, Hayek is an idol to several top-level officials in the
George W. Bush administration. They are dangerous close to imposing a
fascist style economy on the United States.
In order to dispel the myth of the Nazis being socialists we need to
first define socialism. Socialism is rigidly defined as an economic
system in which the workers own the means of production and
distribution of goods. A more relaxed definition would be simply that
the workers maintain political control over the production and
distribution of goods. Even using the more relaxed definition of
socialism, the Nazis can not be labeled as socialists as there simply
was no worker control over the production or distribution of goods in
Nazi Germany. In fact, the Nazis outlawed legitimate labor unions. In
place of the original unions, the Nazis implemented quasi-like unions
that were controlled by the industrialists. In a déjà vu manner, the
Republican Party has recently tried to enact a similar measure,
conferring legal status on worker groups controlled by corporations.
Some writers and historians have argued that you cannot have fascism
without corporatism, as the corporate power structure has much in
common with fascism. During the period preceding the outbreak of WWII
it was common to refer to fascism as corporatism in polite English
society.
More recently others have tried to define fascism as the "Third Way",
in the sense that it borrowed ideas from both capitalism and
socialism. The basic philosophy behind the "Third Way" incorrectly
labels any regulations or government controls over businesses as
socialism; essentially it's just a restatement of syndicalism. Such
nonsense should be rejected whole heartily. It again represents an
attempt to distance the right from their support of Hitler in the
1930s and ignores that the basis of the German economy under Hitler
was a capitalist system where the means of production remained in
private hands. Further, following the logic of the "Third Way," one
would have to label all capitalistic systems as "Third Way," for
throughout history there has never been a pure capitalistic system. A
pure capitalist economy is so inherently and fatally flawed that it's
never even been tried. But that is to be expected for any system that
awards the winner with all the eggs. Nor has there been a pure
socialistic system. Human greed simply prevents it.
The dangers of such nonsense can be illustrated with the following
quote taken from a Baptists fundamentalist's web page in their
labeling of the Japanese economy as fascist: However, Fascism is an
economic term, denoting the type of economy where the Means of
Production [factories, companies] and the ownership of raw materials
[mines, oil wells] remains in the hands of private individuals, but
where the government intervenes to determine how many competitors will
be allowed to produce the same thing, how much is produced, and what
prices may be charged.1
Here it can be seen that the term fascism has been clearly misapplied.
This description could past for the economic theory of the fascist
philosopher George Sorel. This is a description of syndicalism; it was
the economic model of fascist Italy and Nazi Germany to a large
extent. Syndicalism does draw some aspects from socialism, but the
system is still a capitalistic system as ownership of the means of
production and distribution of goods remain in private hands. It is no
more socialism than the conclusion of the Robber Barons and the
corrupt politicians of Tammy Hall. The only difference between this
example of syndicalism is that the government participation is open
versus the backroom corruption of politicians in Tammy Hall.
Not only Japan invoke syndicalism, but almost all the Pacific Rim
nations do, to some extent. These are the same nations that the hard
right has held up in the past as darlings of capitalism and free
enterprise. Yet these are precisely the same economic policies of the
Nazis that they have tried to foist off as socialism. The key
distinction here is the means of production still remains in private
hands, just as it did in Nazi Germany. No capitalistic society has
ever existed without some form of syndicalism or government control
over the economy. The closest America came to an entirely capitalistic
system was either the 1890s and the Robber Barons or the laissez faire
policies of Herbert Hoover, and as we all know, that didn't end too
well in the Great Depression of the 1930s.
No where does the quote above refer to totalitarian control or extreme
nationalism. In fact, they have tried to define fascism in strictly
economic terms for their own purposes. But it does serve to point out
the dangers of inventing the "Third Way" or the use of syndicalism in
an attempt to label the Nazis. The problem here is determining where
syndicalism ends and capitalism begins. Is the trading of pollution
credits a form of syndicalism or is it free enterprise? In America
today, the hard right would attempt to label it as socialism, as they
try to do with any laws or regulations of business. In fact, the past
laws regulating corporations were much more severe and restrictive in
the 1800s than today. One could argue that it was through syndicalism
that the power elite and corporations gradually eroded those laws
until corporations now enjoy more freedoms than what an individual
enjoys. This is precisely what has happened in America.
But environmental and labor laws are not socialism. They are in fact
nothing more than an attempt to bring an out of control system hell
bent on exploitation of the environment and labor back to order. No
labor law or environment law was ever passed in a vacuum. All of these
laws were brought about by a need to correct an unhealthy or unsafe
situation. While there are some corporations that strive to provide a
clean and safe workplace, there are many whose only concern is the
bottom line and they turn a blind eye towards safety and view their
employees as expendable commodities.
Regulation of businesses or corporations by itself is not socialism. A
business entity such as a corporation has no rights other than what
privileges a society wishes to grant it. People have rights; a paper
creation of a society such as a corporation has no inherent rights.
Business entities such as corporations only have conditional
privileges based upon providing for the common good of the society,
which granted the charter. All such paper creations have an obligation
to serve the society, which created it. Failing to perform that
obligation, it loses any right for its continuing existence. It the
obligation of that society to restrict the rights of such entities to
promote equality for all and to prevent a ruling aristocracy from
developing. This view is hardly socialism or even radical, unless one
wishes to label Thomas Jefferson as a radical socialist as he more
eloquently stated it:
"I hope we shall take warning from the example of England and crush in
its birth the aristocracy of our moneyed corporations which dare
already to challenge our Government to trial, and bid defiance to the
laws of our country."3
Perhaps one of the better definitions of fascism comes from Heywood
Broun, a noted American columnist in the 1930s:
"Fascism, is a dictatorship from the extreme right or to put it a
little more closely into our local idiom, a government which is run by
a small group of large industrialists and financial lords...I think it
is not unfair to say that any businessman in America, or public
leader, who goes out to break unions is laying the foundations for
fascism"75
 
A definitive definition of fascism is a totalitarian government with
extreme nationalist tendencies in which the government is controlled
and operated for the benefit of a few elite. However, it should be
noted that an all-encompassing definition of a complex system can not
be simply stated. Such simple definitions undoubtedly fail in time. A
caveat to the above definition would be anytime the government places
the rights of corporations or the elite above the rights of the
citizens, it represents a step towards fascism. A better insight into
what fascism is can be obtained by listing the traits that are common
to the classical fascist states of Franco's Spain, Nazi Germany and
fascist Italy. A list of traits of fascism is presented below. Note
that the first two are the two most defining traits, obviously many of
the others can be applied to many other social-political systems as
one moves down the list.
1. Totalitarian
2. Extreme nationalism
3. Top down revolution or movement
4. Destructive divisionism such as racism and class warfare
5. Extreme anti-communism, anti socialism, and anti-liberal views
6. Extreme exploitation
7. Opportunistic ideology lacking in consistency as a means to grab
power
8. Unbridled Corporatism
9. Reactionary
10. The use of violence and terror to attain and maintain power
11. Cult-like figurehead
12. The expounding of mysticism or religious beliefs
 
Not all fascists need exhibit all of the traits once again it should
be emphasized that all fascist states will exhibit a totalitarian
view. Most fascist states will have an extreme nationalism policy.
However, extreme nationalism is not mandatory. States such as Spain
under Franco and Chile under Pinochet were indeed fascist states, but
they could hardly be described as having a policy of extreme
nationalism.
A brief look at the above traits and how they relate to fascism will
convey a better understanding of what fascism really is, using Nazi
Germany as an example. First, because it was undisputedly fascist and
secondly because there is more literature available on the Nazis than
on either fascist Italy or Franco's Spain. Moreover, the use of the
Nazi's as an example is closer to the focus of this book, which is
creeping fascism in America.
Creeping fascism is the gradual lost of freedoms of the masses to the
power elite. Full-blown fascism has never appeared all at once. The
Nazis took several years to reach the final state of full-blown
fascism. It took the Nazis five years before Kristallnacht, which
marks the beginning of the "Final Solution." The Nazis gradually took
away the freedoms of the citizens of Germany until they were able to
launch the Holocaust. This was the reason for including the caveat in
the definition of fascism above, "Any action taken by the government
that places the rights of the elites and corporations above the
citizens is a step towards fascism."
Such actions will not look like fascism some may even appear to be
reasonable. Its only when the summation of many such actions ends in a
fascist state that such actions can be seen as a step towards fascism.
Make no mistake in understanding that the power elite, those that own
and run America's corporations, are fascist. They have forced war on
this country to protect their assets, they have over-exploited their
employees, they have used violence to bust unions, and they rely on
divisionist policies such as racism and class warfare to maintain
their power.
The erosion of our freedoms in the United States was prolonged by our
constitution. Nevertheless, over time the lost of freedoms has left
America at the edge of a chasm. Any further loss of freedoms and
America will begin an irreversible slide into the deep abyss of
fascism.
Before looking at the traits of fascism a brief review of the history
of fascism and its roots in modern philosophy is needed. By looking at
the roots of fascism in philosophy, we can gain an understanding why
fascism is often described as reactionary. By looking at the various
philosophers that have come to be associated with fascism, we will be
able to see that many of these traits come directly from fascism's
roots in philosophy. In that way, we can then see how some of these
traits that can be applied to other social-political system are
central to fascism.
Many writers have assumed that fascism has no intellectual or
philosophical roots due to its lack of a consistent ideology. But such
views are incorrect; the roots of fascism extend back to the French
Revolution. The French Revolution is one of those landmark events in
the history of Europe marking the beginning of a major shift in
European culture and governments. In essence, fascism was a reaction
to the French revolution. It was a reaction particularly to the slogan
of the revolution of "Liberty, Equality, Fraternity" that was hated
the most.
The concept of liberty from oppressive regimes in the daily lives of
the citizens, including forced religious values, and the concept of
voting and majority rule where the minority still retained a set of
inalienable rights, incensed the early philosophers of fascism. Such a
concept was a direct threat to the kings and nobles of the time, as
well as to the church. Remember this was a time for debtor's prisons,
indentured servants, and vassal states.
Equality, in the eyes of the law, was unspeakable. How could a mere
peasant have the same rights under the law as the kings, nobles, and
merchants? This was the time when the king's word was the law. Rights
were based on the social standing of one's birth. The only rights a
person had at the time were the rights that the king was willing to
extend, and they could be withdrawn at any moment.
Fraternity, in the sense that all men and women shared humanity was
considered heresy. It was a time when slaves were still considered and
treated as animals and women were considered property, and not part of
a greater humanity that needed to be shared.
All three terms meant a loss in power and control by those in power.
But, this is exactly what the philosophers that have come to be
associated with fascism were reacting to and rejecting. The period
following the French Revolution produced a virtual intellectual stew
of various philosophies, including those of Marx and Engels. A brief
look at some of the major philosophers of fascism will show how they
relate to the traits listed early, and how they were a reaction to the
French Revolution. This list of philosophers is by no means complete,
but it will suffice to show that many of the traits attributed to
fascism above have roots going back as far as the French Revolution.
Arthur Schopenhauer (1788-1860) was a German philosopher perhaps best
known for his The World as Will and Representation.4 His beliefs held
that the will is the underlying and ultimate reality. The whole
phenomenal world was only the expression of will. Individuals have
free will only in the sense that everyone is an expression of a will.
Thus we are not authors of our own destiny, character, or behavior,
according to Schopenhauer. His views parallel the development of
relativistic physics that came a century later. His views were
influential on Nietzche, among others.
Georg Hegel (1770-1831), a German philosopher held pantheism as the
heart of his beliefs. The Phenomenology of Spirit and Science of Logic
are two of his better-known works. He viewed that all existence and
all history was divine and that nature was sacred. He viewed God as an
absolute spirit that also manifested itself in material things and
individuals. He believed God acted through humans and embodied himself
first in nature, then in the rising stages of human consciousness and
civilization. He also had an ethnocentric and egocentric view. He
maintained that the German nation was the highest carrier of the wave
of God's development. He believed that the bureaucratic monarchy of
Prussia was the highest form of state. These later views were
certainly manifested in the Nazi's view of the Aryan race, as shown in
the following quote.
"Thus the highest purpose of the folkish state is concern for the
preservation of those original racial elements which bestow culture
and create the beauty and dignity of a higher mankind. We, as Aryans,
can conceive of the state only as the living organism of a nationality
which not only assures the preservation of this nationality, but by
the development of its spiritual and ideal abilities leads it to the
highest freedoms."8
Fredrich Nietzche (1844-1900), also a German philosopher was best
known for his work Thus Spake Zarathustra.5 Hitler liked to be
photographed staring at a bust of Nietzche. Nietzche theorized two
sets of morals, one for the ruling class and another for the slave
class. Nietzche viewed that ancient empires grew out of the ruling
class and that religions arose out of the slave classes, (which
denigrates the rich, the powerful, rationalism, and sexuality.) He
developed a concept of an "overman," a superhuman, which symbolized
man at his most creative and highest intellectual development.
Obviously, the "overman" was manifested in the Nazi's view of the
Aryan race. He suffered a mental break down, most likely from the
advances of syphilis, and was cared for by his mother and later his
sister, Elisabeth. His sister painstakingly gathered his notes to
publish his latter works. However, she was active in the rising anti-
Semitic movement at the time and may have tainted his later work with
her views. From time to time, Nietzsche enjoys a rebirth of
popularity. Today is one such rebirth, fitting in well with the
unmitigated greed and corporatism of today's hard right. Nietzsche's
connection to the Nazis is obvious, as shown by the following
quotation.
"with satanic joy in his face, the black haired Jewish youth lurks in
wait for the unsuspecting girl whom he defiles with his blood, thus
stealing her from her people. With every means he tries to destroy the
racial foundations of the people he has set out to subjugate. Just as
he himself systematically ruins women and girls, he does not shrink
back from pulling down the blood barriers for others, even on a large
scale. It was and it is Jews who bring Negroes into the Rhineland,
always with the same secret thought and clear aim of ruining the hated
white race by necessarily resulting bastardization, throwing it down
from its culture and political height, and himself rising to be
master."9
Notice the similarity in this passage and the Council of Conservative
Citizens that Senator Lott and representative Barr supported before
becoming embroiled in the resulting scandal in late 1998.10 The web
site for this white supremacist group described interracial marriage
to the mixing of chocolate milk with plain milk, and labeled it as a
path to racial extinction. They also described Lincoln as a communist.
11
Henri Bergson (1859-1941) was a French philosopher with a Jewish
father and an English mother. He was the winner of the Nobel Prize for
literature in 1927. He rejected the idea that scientific principles
could explain all existence. He was a promoter of what has become
known as Social Darwinism.6 Perhaps one of his better known works was
Time and Free Will. He was also a believer in pantheism. Once again,
we see the obvious connection with the Nazis of a master race in the
following quote concerning the Nazi's euthanasia program:
"...a secret circular went out from the Reich interior Ministry which
marked the beginning of a programme of euthanasia for mentally ill or
deformed children up to three years old. Doctors would be required to
report all such cases to the health authority on special forms; the
forms would then be forwarded to a panel of three medical assessors
who would adjucate over life or death by appending "-" or "+." Should
all three place a "+", a euthanasia warrant would be issued, signed by
the Reichsleiter Philipp Bouhler of the Fuhrer's Chancellery or
SS_Oberfuhrer Dr Viktor Brack, head of the Chancellery's Euthanasia
Department II. And so it happened: infants marked for death were
transferred to what were referred to as Children's Special Departments
in political reliable clinics, there to be given a "mercy death" by
injection or in one institution at Eglfing-Haar simply starved by a
progressive reduction of diet."7
Geroge Sorel (1847-1922) was a French philosopher who had considerable
influence on Mussolini. His writings promoted an economic model based
on syndicalism. He also believed in the degeneration of societies and
believed that social decay could only be delayed by idealists who were
willing to use violence to obtain power. His views were extremely anti-
democratic and anti-liberal.
With this very brief review of philosophy has shown that the fascist
traits of nationalism, totalitarian, racist, violence, unbridled
corporatism, reactionary, and the top down nature of fascism all are
grounded in the works of past philosophers.
A totalitarian government is one that seeks to maintain control over
all aspects of public and private life by using propaganda, terror,
and technology. Totalitarian regimes seek control over political,
social, and the culture. However, economic control is left in the
hands of a few elites in the fascist state. While the means of
economic control is left in the private hands of a few elites, this
same group controls the government. In essence the government becomes
the tool by which the rich and the corporations maintain control. The
distinction is important to note as it separates communism from
fascism. In a communist state the control over the economy moves to
the inside of government, while in the fascist state it remains in
private hands. Dictatorships differ in seeking only limited control
over the political environment of a society.
There was only limited government ownership under the Nazis. Prior to
the Nazi take over, the German governments took over failing
businesses and continued to operate them. When the Nazis took over the
government already owned a large number of enterprises. When the Nazis
took over they began to privatize many of these businesses, especially
the ones that had remained profitable during the depression like the
electric utilities.
Once Hitler assured big business that they would be free to continue
to operate, they failed to raise any further objections to the Nazis.
The large German steel and coal industries especially welcomed the
Nazis. Hitler's plans for rearmament meant large contracts for new
ships, tanks, etc. Later during the war when a labor shortage
appeared, it was Krupp from the German steel industry that first
raised the question of using slave labor from the concentration camps.
At first the Nazis were reluctant to allow the inmates to be used as
slaves as it would slow the progress of the "final solution." However,
once Krupp offered to pay for the slaves the Nazis readily agreed and
soon there was no shortage of companies seeking slaves.

What is less understood about the totalitarian power Hitler achieved
was the path he took to obtain that power. There never has been
totalitarian regime that gained instant total control. Such a sudden
change would spawn sudden revolutions. Mussolini took three years
before consolidating his power in Italy. In case of the Nazis, it took
even longer. Nor did the path to totalitarian Nazi state start with
the elevation of Hitler to the position of chancellor. Some historians
trace the roots of the path all the way back into the 1800s. A
complete analysis of German history from the time of the monarchy to
the seating of Hitler is beyond the scope of this book, if not beyond
the scope of any single book, as volumes could be written. What
follows is a very brief look at the slow erosion of freedom and the
concentration of power as it relates to the final totalitarian state.
For the most part, the period following WWI was a period dominated by
raucous politics and a series of crisis in Germany. The two periods in
which the Nazis gained the most strength was the early 1920s, during
the hyper inflationary period, culminating with the Beer Hall Putsch
and the depression of 1929-1931. There is little need to examine the
raucous politics of that period, everyone is well aware of Hitler's SA
thugs breaking up political rallies of other parties which also
resorted to the same tactics. It would not be untrue to describe many
political rallies of the time as ending in brawls.
Hitler and the Nazis were extremists, and mostly rejected by the
German voters during the good economic times of the 1920s. For
example, in 1928 they only polled 2.6 percent of the vote, gaining
just 14 seats out of the 491 seats in the Reichstag by virtue of the
republic's proportional representation. By 1930 and the start of the
depression, the Nazis had increased their seats to 107 out of 577
seats in the Reichstag. In the July 1932 election, at the height of
the depression, the Nazis polled 37.4 percent of the vote winning 230
seats in the Reichstag, becoming Germany's largest party.13 In the Nov
1932 election, they only won 196 seats as an anemic economic recovery
was already underway, the people began rejecting the Nazis and their
radical views and actions.
Germany's plunge into a totalitarian state began before the Nazis took
over. It was as much a result of a lack of a strong leadership as
anything else. For the first eleven years of the German Republic there
had been seventeen cabinets headed by nine different chancellors.12
Undoubtedly, the country faced grave crisis in this period such as
hyperinflation, but the lack of strong leadership and an increased
polarization was readily apparent. The Nazis were the most notorious
radicals unwilling to compromise, but the other parties have to share
some of the blame for this polarization as well. The blame can be
extended beyond the parties to the vested interests behind each party,
including that of big businesses. Fracturing the electorate by
polarization was playing right into the divisionist character of the
Nazis, whose radical program lacked a broad base of support as the
election results from 1928 showed.
The policies of the German governments during the 1920s inadvertently
aided the rise of the Nazis. Throughout the 1920s the government
arrested many of the leaders from the left. It would not be unfair to
term these arrests as purges. The arrest of any strong leaders
emerging from the left only served to further polarize the country by
creating a vacuum on the left that was only filled with the more
radical communists. A similar situation is emerging in the United
States, throughout this century the United States has conducted purges
of the left: the Great Red Scare of 1919, McCartyism of the 1950s, and
COINTELPRO operations during the sixties. Without the voices from the
left to moderate policy, the political center in the United States has
shifted to the hard right.
The immediate result in the lack of strong leadership is frequent
chances in government, which only lead to more instability and chaos.
An ideal parallel is the long string one term Presidents ending with
Lincoln and the Civil War. The polarization of the Unite States
gradually increased from about 1820 on resulting in one term
presidents. Another string of one term Presidents ended with the
election of Roosevelt in the middle of the Great Depression. In both
U.S. case the ending result was not pleasant: a civil war and a
depression.
Such frequent change in government does not allow businesses to make
long range plans, nor does it allow for enough to time for programs
enacted by a government to work. These effects then act as negative
feedback, further increasing the polarization and the resulting chaos.
Additionally, the German constitution was flawed and did not account
for a negative parliament. Power in Germany was concentrated in the
office of the president, headed by Hindenburg, who initially had been
elected by conservatives and reactionary rightists. He was a member of
the aristocratics from the Junker class and had been a war hero; he
likewise held sentiments for the monarchy. The president had the power
to appoint cabinets and chancellors. Beginning in 1930, Hindenburg
began the practice of appointing chancellors of his choice that were
not beholding to the parliament. To allow the chancellors to
circumvent parliament, he granted these chancellors emergency powers
that had been given to the president by the constitution. Starting in
1930, almost all national laws, including the power to tax, were
enacted by presidential decrees and not by the parliament. Such
presidential decrees would be similar to the executive orders in the
United States.
Hence, even before Hitler was appointed to the chancellor position,
power was being concentrated into the two offices of the chancellor
and the president. At least twice before appointing Hitler as
chancellor, Hindenburg entertained ideas of violating the constitution
by not holding elections within the sixty days as required by the
constitution.
Hindenburg had also avoided appoint Hitler as chancellor twice before
January 1933. Even with the support of big business Hindeburg failed
to appoint Hitler when the Nazis held more seats in the Reichstag than
any other party.
It wasn't until after Hitler met in secret with von Pappen at the
Cologne home of Baron Kurt von Schroder that Hindenburg would relent
and appoint Hitler chancellor. The baron was the head of the
international Schroder banking empire and had previously raised funds
to pay off the Nazi's debt.
The secret meeting on January 4, 1933 allowed Hitler and von Pappen to
work out their differences and to agree to a new cabinet under the
direction of both. This secret meeting was the birthplace of the Third
Reich.
However, there were two Americans that also were in attendance: John
Foster Dulles and his brother Allen. The Dulles brothers were there as
legal representatives for Kuhn Loeb Company, which had extended large
short term credits to Germany. Their presence was to secure a
guarantee of repayment from Hitler.
Moreover, Kurt von Schroder had extensive financial contacts in New
York and London. He was a co-director of Thyssen foundry along with
Johann Groeninger, Prescott Bush's New York bank partner. Schroeder
was also the vice president and director of the Hamburg-Amerika Line,
the same shipping line seized from Prescott Bush for trading with the
enemy.
Throughout 1932, actions taken by the Bush-Harriman shipping line were
directly responsible for bringing Hitler to power. The constitutional
government tried to disarm the Nazi Brown Shirts to stop the mad
election melees and murders. The U.S. embassy in Berlin reported:
" Hamburg-Amerika Line was purchasing and distributing propaganda
attacks against the German government, for attempting this last-minute
crackdown on Hitler's forces."
During 1932, Hitler's thugs murdered thousands of Germans. Arms for
Hitler were shipped to Germany aboard Hamburg-Amerika Line. They were
transferred to river barges before reaching Antwerp and then
transported across Holland freely. Samuel Pryor, founder of Union Bank
and a partner in the Hamburg-America Line was also executive committee
chairman of Remington Arms. Hitler's Brown Shirts were armed primarily
with Remington arms and Thompson submachine guns. A Senate
investigation of Remington concluded that all of the political
factions in Germany were armed with mostly American made guns.
Once Hitler and von Pappen had reached an agreement on their future
course of actions. Pappen pressured Hindenburg to appoint Hitler as
chancellor. The success of the meeting was recorded in Goebbels. On
January 5, 1933 Goebbels wrote in his diary "If this coup succeeds, we
are not far from power. . . . Our finances have suddenly improved."
Hindenburg appointed Hitler, as chancellor with the understanding
Hitler would be a parliamentary rather than a presidential chancellor.
Hitler immediately set about sabotaging the efforts to from a
parliamentary majority. Here is one of the first examples of fascism
and divisionism.
On February 1, 1933 the German parliament was dissolved and new
elections were scheduled for early March. Using his henchmen, Hilter
had the Reichstag building burnt. The fire was blamed on the
communist, his main revivals. Using the fire as an excuse, Hitler
banned the communist from the upcoming election. Additionally, Goring
deputized his storm troopers to harass any political opposition from
his position in the cabinet; even then the Nazis could not achieve a
majority in parliament as they polled only 43.9 votes.14 By summer,
all political parties except the Nazis had been dissolved. On the
death of Hindenburg in 1934, Hitler assumed the office of president
and further consolidated his gripe on power, but it would take a
couple of additional years before Hitler was a true totalitarian. He
purged the justice system of judges with adverse views, appointing
rabid Nazis in their place, and the storm troopers were given police
powers. Justice was now the Nazi party line.
One does not need to expound upon the extreme nationalism of the
fascist. The history of their invasion in a quest for world dominion
is well known. Mussolini turned his attention to Ethiopia and North
Africa; Hitler first to Austria, then Czechoslovakia, followed by
Western Europe and later to Norway and the east.
Hilter had left a blueprint for his extreme nationalism and the quest
for lebensraum in Mien Kampf as shown by the quote below.
"If the National Socialist movement really wants to be consecrated by
history with a great mission for our nation, it must be permeated by
knowledge and filled with pain at our true situation in this world;
boldly and conscious of its goal, it must take up the struggle against
the aimlessness and incompetence which have hitherto guided our German
nation in the line of foreign affairs. Then without consideration of
traditions and prejudices it must find the courage to gather our
people and their strength for an advance along the road that will lead
this people from its present restricted living space to new land and
soil; and hence also free it from danger of vanishing from the earth
or of serving others as a slave nation.
The Nationalist Socialist movement must strive to eliminate the
disproportion between our population and our area-viewing this later
as a source of food as well as a basis for power politics---between
our historical past and the helplessness of our present impotence."15
The third trait of fascism is that it consists of a top down
revolution or movement. It is becoming more accepted today that the
Nazis drew support from all classes. Indeed, this seems a reasonable
assumption when looking at all of the evidence. The storm troopers for
the most part drew their numbers from the lower and middle classes.
They were typically were unemployed laborers, inept middle management,
or failed businessmen. Likewise, given the vote tally of over thirty
percent in the 1932 elections, the Nazis had to have drawn votes from
all social classes. But this has no bearing on who controlled the
direction of the party. Control of the party rested solely with Hitler
and whom he allied with. He chose to ally with the upper class and big
business as borne out by his policies after gaining power. There is
little controversy over the considerable support Hitler drew from the
aristocrats, the military, or the Junkers.
Telltale signs forewarning of the elite control was evident from the
very formation of the party until the final days before gaining power.
A brief look at those that financed the Nazis rise to power will
reveal the real support behind Hitler. This is becoming an increasing
issue of contention as American hard right tries to distance
themselves from the similarities of their policies with fascism.
Hitler himself did not form the Nazi party initially. He joined an
existing party and then molded it according to his wishes. In fact,
his company commander had ordered him to attend a meeting of what was
the German Workers Party. Here was Hitler's initial reaction to the
party.
"My impression was neither good or bad; a new organization like so many others. This was the time in which anyone who was not satisfied with developments and no longer had confidence in the existing parties felt called upon to found a new party. Everywhere these organizations sprang from the ground, only to vanish silently after a time. The founders for the most part had no idea what it means to make a party---let alone a movement---out of a club. And so these organizations nearly always stifle automatically in their absurd phillistinism."16
The order from his company commander provides the first evidence that
the elite backed Hitler from the very beginning. At any point from
this date the German military could have withdrawn its support of
Hitler and disbanded the Nazi party
Hitler was a good orator by all reports, as well as an astute
political observer. He knew how to motivate the masses in his name and
how to sustain a movement. Someone once remarked recently that you
needed only gain control of the 3Ms to gain power. The three "Ms" are
the military, media, and money. Hitler had all three behind him. As
shown by the passage from Mein Kampf, Hitler started with the blessing
of the military. The military, as well as big business, played a
behind the scenes role in the appointment of Hitler as chancellor.
It's the last of the 3Ms where much confusion and debate arise,
Hitler's source of funds or money.
Big business likewise had a large hand in bringing down Bruning in
1930. In a large part, it was the constant bickering by special
interest groups that led to the falling of Bruning's cabinet. Big
1. The government must take steps to lower the cost of production and widen the profit margin.
2. Lower taxes
3. Reduce the size of government.
4. Lower unemployment insurance benefit
5. The government must allow wages to progress to lower levels, by
voiding labor contracts and binding arbitration.26
If these demands from the business community seem familiar to the
reader, it's because in a large part they are the same policies that
the Republican Party has been advocating for the last twenty years.
Throughout the 1920s and up until Hitler was appointed chancellor the
Nazi party was plagued with a shortage of money. After release for
prison for the failed Beer Hall Putsch, Hitler's only known source of
income was from the sale of Mein Kampf and fees for newspaper articles
he would write. The first edition of Mein Kampf was published July 18,
1925 in an edition of 10,000 copies selling for 12 marks. By the end
of the year almost all copies had been sold. A new edition was printed
but sales in the following year plummeted.
Nevertheless, almost immediately after being pardoned he bought a new
super-charged Mercedes-Benz for 28,000 marks.17 Additionally, Hitler
did not drive, so he had the additional expense of a chauffeur.
Likewise, from 1925 until his appointment as chancellor in 1933,
Hitler lived in increasing comforts, if not outright lavishness for
the times. Certainly, the royalties from Mein Kampf and fees for his
other writings were insufficient to cover even his living expenses,
not to mention the party's expenses.
Also, the funding for an ever-increasing number of SA troopers (many
of which were unemployed) had to be secured. Turner has suggested that
the Nazis were self sufficient from dues, speaker's fees, and
donations at rallies. However, this seems almost improbable looking at
the numbers from 1930. In 1930 there were about 100,000 storm troopers
that had to be fed, housed and otherwise supported. Additionally there
were 15,000 in the SS. Nazi membership at the beginning of 1931 was
only 389,000.18 Thus it seems very reasonable that outside sources of
funding was needed to maintain the SA and SS, as well as the ever
increasing lifestyle of Hitler. Membership fees in the Nazi party
started at a mark per month, non-paying members were quickly dropped
from the party.
From the very beginning of the Nazi party Hitler showed a knack for
obtaining funding from the more privileged members of German society.
For instance, everyone is well aware of the trial following the Beer
Hall Putsch, but less well known was a secondary trial following the
putsch. In the secondary trial, several businessmen that had donated
money or other support for Hitler were put on trial. Some have
attributed much of this early funding of the Nazis to the secret Thule
Society.19 Another early source of funds in the early 20s came from
the efforts of Scheubner-Richter, who was adept at gaining funds from
Bavarian aristocrats, big businessmen, bankers, and leaders of heavy
industry.20 Another source of early funds came indirectly from Fritz
Thyssen. Henry Ford also exerted a considerable influence over Hitler
in the early 1920s, as well as money. Some passages from Ford's
International Jew are nearly identical to passages in Mein Kampf.
Ford's book is reported to have had a large effect on many of the
school children of the time that were suffering through hyperinflation
and economic hard times while reading a book written by the world's
foremost capitalist.

The extent of Ford's financial donations to Hitler still remains a
mystery. The U. S. ambassador to Germany, William Dodd, was quoted
saying "certain American industrialists had a great deal to do with
bringing fascist regimes into being in both Germany and Italy."21 The
extent of corporate America's collaboration with the Nazis before the
war and even during the war, in some cases, is not fully known.
However, as time goes by and more information becomes available, the
collaboration begins to appear significant, as shown in the following
article.
"Bernd Greiner said 26 of the top 100 US companies in the 1930s
collaborated to some degree with the Nazis before, and in some cases
after, Hitler declared war on the United States in December 1941.
Company headquarters in the US have denied they knew what was going on
in Germany, but there is evidence to suggest they knew their German
subsidiaries used slave labor, tolerated it and in some cases were
actively involved, Greiner said.
Greiner confirmed a report in the newspaper Die Zeit, based on his
findings of US corporate involvement in Nazi Germany. The findings
went beyond allegations of US lawyers and historians last year that
automakers General Motors and Ford collaborated with the Nazi
regime."22
One of the more historically accurate, but shamefully apologetic to
big business sources is the book, German Big Business and the Rise of
Hitler by Turner.23 Turner does a good job in detailing the extensive
participation of the leaders of business with the Nazis. However, he
reaches the conclusion that big business did not support Hitler with a
rather contrived definition of what big business is. He based his
definition on the value of the float of stock on the market. His
definition limited the number of companies that he would classify as
big business to only 14 companies in the Ruhr industrial area and a
smattering of companies located elsewhere. Essentially, his definition
would be the equivalent of saying that only the Dow 30 companies in
the U. S. could truly be called big business. This of course is
nonsense. The majority of people would certainly consider Chrysler,
Texas Instruments, Hewitt Packard, John Deere and Chase Manhattan Bank
to be big business, but according to Turner's book they are not. It is
from this group of second and third tier businesses (in keeping with
Turner's definition) that provided the most help and support for
Hitler. Furthermore, Turner neglects the effect of cartel agreements
as well as subsidiaries in his analysis. Many of these second and
third tier corporations were owned and controlled by the 14
corporations, he considered to be big business.
Secondly, Turner focuses much of his attention on the period of
1920-1928, when the Nazis were at best a minor noisy party. During
this time, the Nazis were lucky to poll more than three percent of the
vote. Yet Turner tries to use this as proof that big business did not
support Hitler's rise to power, although he does admit that Fritz
Thyssen and Kirdolf were supporters of the Nazis during this time. An
equivalent situation would be today's Libertarian Party, a party that
draws support from Koch, head of Koch refinery (a second tier company
by Turner's reasoning). But no one is rushing to fund the Libertarians
today when they cannot even poll five percent of the vote.
Finally, when the source of funds were unquestionably from big
business Turner attempts to discredit them by claiming the source of
the funds was a junior level executive that couldn't be responsible
for overall company policy. Or he attempts to say they were given to
an individual Nazi. In one shameful passage Turner attempts to
discredit the funds given to Nazi fund-raiser Walther Funk by claiming
they were not a donation to the party as they may have been spent by
Funk for entertainment. Turner describes a particular drunken binge
across town by Funk in which he passed out some rather large tips and
then draws the conclusion that perhaps none of the funds given Funk
ever reached the Nazis.24 This is not the work of a historian, as
Turner claims to be. This is nothing more than conjecture by a
propagandist. There is also one other speculative conclusion one could
draw from this passage, and that is that the amount of money Funk was
receiving was so enormous that it permitted such behavior.
Turner does a good job in showing that it was those second and third
tier businesses that supported the Nazis. In Duren, a Rhenish
manufacturing town, the Nazis received considerable support from local
industrialists such as the millionaire dynasties (a term in use from
the 1820s in describing these two families) of the Schoellers and the
Schulls. Another area in which the Nazis received broad support from
businesses was Solingen, an industrial town.25 Overall, Turner
documents the participation of business leaders and their support for
the Nazis, leaving no question in the reader's mind that business
leaders exerted a considerable influence on the Nazis. Unfortunately,
he ends his study just as the Nazis seize power.
Many businesses chose to align with and support the Nazis after they
gained power. Krupp and I.G. Faben were both executors' of Goring's
Four-Year Plan to make Germany militarily self-sufficient by 1940. One
can view the details of Krupp's involvement and support for the Nazis
after March 1933 in the documents from the War Crimes Tribunal at
Nuremberg.31 The full set of available documents from Nuremberg is
also available on the Internet.32 By 1939, I.G. Faben provided the
Nazis with 90 percent of their foreign exchange, 95 percent of
imports, and 85 percent of all military and commercial goods. In 1932,
Hermann Schmitz Faben's joint chairman joined forces with Kurt von
Schroder, director of a wealthy private bank. Schroder was a fanatical
Nazi, often times dressed in his black SS uniform. Schroder is the man
that is closely linked with Chase Bank, Standard Oil and William
Teagle, and ITT. In 1932, Schroder and Wilhelm Keppler formed the
group known as "The Fraternity." This group guaranteed a source of
money to the Gestapo. Members agreed to contribute an average of one
million marks a year to Himmler's personally marked "S" account and
the transferable secret "R" account of the Gestapo.27
In April of 1933, Gustav Krupp sought out a private meeting with
Hitler. Krupp agreed to become Hitler's chief fundraiser and chairman
of the Adolf Hitler Fund. In return Hitler promised to appoint Krupp
as the fuehrer of Germany industry. Over the years, Krupp contributed
over six million marks of his own money to the Nazis, and his
correspondence shows that he truly enjoyed his job as chairman.28
Likewise, it is common knowledge that after Hitler was appointed
chancellor Krupp greeted people cheerfully with the Heil Hitler
salutation.
Schirer writes that in 1931, when Hitler decided to cultivate
relationships between influential industrial leaders, he kept their
identity a secret.
"The party still had to play both sides of the tracks. The party had
to allow Strasser, Goebbels and Feder to beguile the masses with
socialist talk and denigrating the industrial magnates."
Some of the meetings were so secretive that they were held in forest
glades."29
Further proof of the industrialist involvement and support of the
Nazis comes from the testimony of Funk at Nuremberg. The entire list
implicated by Funk is far too long to reproduce here, but besides
Thyssen and Krupp it included Georg von Schnitzler-I.G. Farben, August
Rosterg and August Diehn of the potash industry, Cuno of the Hamburg
Amerika Line, Otto Wolf, Kurt von Schroder, and many other wealthy
industrialists30
On May 2, 1933, the Nazis raided and occupied all trade union
headquarters. The leaders were beaten and arrested; some were placed
in the concentration camps. Union funds were confiscated and the
unions were dissolved. Members of the communist party and the social
democrats had already been arrested. On June 20, 1934, in what has
become known as the Night of Long Knifes, Hitler purged the socialists
within the Nazi party, chief among them Roehm.
With the broad financial support from the leaders of the business
community as well as from the military leaders and aristocrats, the
Nazis were truly a top down organization, while the Nazis used the
lower class as foot soldiers to gain power. They did so in a deceiving
manner, and once in power, immediately set about betraying the lower
classes
We have already shown one example of divisionism by the Nazis in their
rise to power. But what sets fascist divisionism apart from the
ordinary divisionism of any other political ideology? Certainly any
politician in a democracy appeals to some sort of divisionism, as he
is fully aware that he can not possibly appeal to the entire
electorate. The difference lies in the fact that divisionism is always
destructive in fascism and serves only as a means to gain and maintain
power. Even after gaining power, Hitler went to great pains in
dividing power, playing one follower against another, creating
rivalries in the party in the process. In short, Hitler kept the Nazi
party divided as if it was a set of small fiefdoms. One of the biggest
myths about the Nazis is that they were a single unit, when in fact
they were a conglomeration of various fractured parts. Eatwell states
the paradox within Hitler's power structure as: "because the party was
so divided that he had power and in turn the party was divided from
other key centers of power such as the army." 47 In other ideologies,
the divisionism is not inherently destructive. Rather, it's based on
differing approaches coming together to reach an equable solution to a
problem. In his rise to power, Hitler had no intention of compromising
with the other parties to form a parliamentary president. His moves
were calculated to destroy any chance of that.
A couple of examples from the present can further delineate the
difference between the two. Certainly many of the tax proposals coming
from the Republican party today could be classed as divisionism as
they favor the upper income earners over the lower income groups.
While the measures are divisive they can hardly be labeled as
destructive divisionism. They are more a reflection of difference in
opinion.
However, an example of an act that could be termed a fascist
divisionism was the Republican caused shut down of the government in
November 1995 after Clinton vetoed the budget bill. Clinton had
previously warned Congress that unless changes were made in the budget
he would veto the bill. Members of the hard right Council for National
Policy and many of their Republican members openly had declared they
would shut down the government. In essence, the Republicans adopted
the same policy that Hitler had in his bid to dismiss parliament; they
refused to negotiate honorably.
Just as Hitler had taken a position to subvert democracy, so had the
Republicans, led by Gingrich. The constitution defines the passing of
the budget in detail. The spending bills originate in the House after
passage by both the House and the Senate. It is then sent to the
President, who may either veto it or sign it. If the bill is vetoed,
it is up to Congress and the President to reach a compromise bill.
Otherwise, Congress must pass a bill with a two-thirds majority. The
failure of Congress to pass a bill to advert a government shutdown was
a dereliction of their constitutional duty. Fortunately, the outrage
coming from the general public forced the Republicans back to the
negotiation table. The point to be made is the only difference between
the two events---the Republicans feared the wrath of the people and
capitulated, Hitler had no such fear and parliament was dismissed.
The Republican shut down of the government also serves to point out a
flaw in our constitution, just as there was a flaw in the German
constitution. In the case of the U. S. constitution there is no other
mechanism other than shutting down the government if Congress fails to
pass a budget. If the fascists in America can be successful in
polarizing American politics to such an extent that the public, or at
least a considerable portion of it, tolerates a government shut down,
then the entire budget process becomes a fracas. And after observing
the behavior of the Republicans in their ill fated attempt to impeach
Clinton such a possibility does not appear so remote.
Another example of divisionism that is solely destructive that is not
based on racism or class warfare was the impeachment of Bill Clinton.
It served no purpose other than to smear the president, the articles
of impeachment fell far short of what the founding fathers had defined
in the phrase "high crimes and misdemeanors." That phrase refers back
to the misuse of offices in England under the king. Additionally, the
investigation of Ken Starr has been plagued by civil rights abuse and
possible criminal action by Starr himself. It resembles a coup headed
by the multi millionaire Scaife with the aid of the religious right,
more than it resembled a justified impeachment.
But perhaps, the greatest illustration of the divisionism was seeing
support for the impeachment evaporate like rain on hot pavement in the
Senate following the State of the Union address and a thorough defense
of the charges by Clinton's legal team. The House prosecutors with the
conclusion of Ken Starr questioned Monica Lewinsky further in secret.
This single action by the House Republicans invoked criticism from
even members of their own party in the Senate. It was conducted
against the agreed upon rules, and it was unconstitutional in that the
power of investigation is delegated to the Senate. Likewise, it is
against the statute of the Independent Council. It served no purpose
other than to further divide and disgust the country. In short, it is
nothing but an attempt at a power play.

Often times, this divisionism takes the form of racism or class
warfare. It is often stated that Mussolini tried to eliminate class
distinctions in fascist Italy. But the reality is that he only
reinforced those distinctions. Certainly the Nazis practiced racism in
an outrageous manner, ending in the Holocaust. On the other hand,
fascist Italy was not racist in nature until after Mussolini adopted
Hitler's Jewish solution. Fascism doesn't necessary have to be racist
in nature, but racism is often used to divide the citizens, as their
radical platform isn't appealing to the broad masses. In addition,
racism is violent in nature and the resulting chaos from the violence
serves to further divide the masses. Whether or not a fascist state is
racist seems to depend more upon the culture of the society in which
it arises. Before fascism, Italy had a long history of generally
equable racial relationships, going all the way back to the old Roman
Empire. For instance, even the slaves were eventually given full
rights in Rome. However, the roots of anti-Semitism goes back much
further in Germany as shown in the following quote.
"This is a good month to reflect on the toxicity of words meant to
kill. Nov. 9 marks the 60th anniversary of Kristallnacht, the 1938
'Night of Shattered Glass' unleashed by the Nazis to terrorize
Germany's Jews. The date was chosen specially by Josef Goebbels,
Hitler's propagandist, to honor the birthday of Martin Luther, the
16th century monk who was a father of the protestant Reformation and
the founder of what became the Lutheran church.
Hitler greatly admired Luther: "He saw the Jew as we are only
beginning to see him today." Indeed. Luther saw the Jews as 'hopeless,
wicked, venomous, and devilish... our pest, torment, and misfortune.'
Initially, certain that his version of Christianity would appeal to
Jews, he expected large numbers of them to covert. When that failed to
happen, he turned violently against them. In 1543, Luther Published
"On the Jews and Their Lies," a work that would become known
throughout Germany, perhaps the most widely disseminated work of anti-
Semitism by a German until the rise of the Nazis 400, years later.
"What then shall we Christians do with this damned, rejected race of
Jews?" Luther asked.
"First, their synagogues should be set on fire, and whatever does not
burn up should be covered or spread over with dirt, so that no one may
ever be able to see a cinder or stone of it...
Secondly, their homes should likewise be broken down and destroyed...
Thirdly, they should be deprived of their prayer books and Talmuds, in
which such idolatry, lies, cursing, and blasphemy are taught.
Fourthly, their rabbis must be forbidden under threat of death to
teach any more...
Fifthly, passports and traveling privileges should be absolutely
forbidden to the Jews...
Sixthly, I advise that...all cash and treasure of silver and gold be
taken from them...
Burn down their synagogues, forbid all that I enumerated earlier,
force them to work, and deal harshly with them... If this does not
help we must drive them out like mad dogs, so we do not become
partakers of their abominable blasphemy and all their other vices. I
have done my duty. Now let everyone see to his."
This is hate speech.
< Sixty years ago next Monday on the night of Luther's birthday, Nazi
gangs rampaged across Germany. In every Jewish neighborhood, windows
were smashed and buildings were torched. All told, 101 synagogues were
destroyed, and nearly 7,500 Jewish-owned businesses were demolished.
On that night, 91 Jews were murdered; 26,000 were rounded up and sent
to concentration camps. It was the greatest pogrom in history. And it
was nothing compared with what was to come."33
The question then remains whether the fascism in America can be
considered racist or not. The past history of racism in the United
States would tend to support such. As a nation, we was one of the last
industrial nations to allow slavery, and it took the Civil War to end
slavery. It has been less than fifty years since "separate but equal"
was the rule of the land. It's only been sixty years since Japanese
citizens and immigrants were interred in camps following the bombing
of Pearl Harbor. The Rosewood incident happened less than a hundred
years ago, and lynching of blacks was common well into the 20th
century. This country has had a long, incredulous history of bigotry
and even genocide. There is no question of the genocide of Native
Americans in the efforts of the U. S. Army in passing out blankets
infected with small pox, or the slaughter of the Plains Indian's
primary source of food, the buffalo. Then there was the Trail of
Tears, as well. The Irish immigrants, following the potato famine,
were greeted by the Know Nothings, a party that based its support on
the hate of Catholics.
All of the hard right groups are racist, although more than one tries
to play their racism down or to hide it, such as the John Birch
Society and some of the various militia groups. Others are openly
racists, such as the Klan, the Nazis and the skinheads. The great
unifier of the far right, the Identity religion, links many of the
hard right groups. The Identity religion is based on anti-Semitic
belief that the true followers of Jesus immigrated to Britain and
northern Europe, that today's Jews are the descendents of Satan. It's
the mainstay religion among the militias, the Posse Comitatus, and
even among some of the Klan groups.
Besides the normal hate groups based on racism or anti-Semitism. the
religious right has emerged in the 1990s as a venomous hate group
basing their hate on gays and abortion. Abortion clinics increasingly
are becoming targets of bombings, arson, and vandalism. Late in 1998,
Matthew Shepard was murdered in Wyoming after being tie to a fence and
then pistol whipped, for being gay. Below are some quotes about gays
from one of the leaders of the religious right, Pat Robertson.
"This conduct [homosexuality] is anti-social, and it is a pathology.
It is a sickness, and it needs to be treated. It doesn't need to be
taught in the classroom as a preferred way of life..." - 700 Club,
3-7-90
"...the acceptance of homosexuality is the last step in the decline of
Gentile civilization." --Pat Robertson, of the Christian Broadcasting
Network, warned that hurricanes could hit Orlando, Fla., because of
gay events there. Time magazine, Oct 26, 1998
"If the world accepts homosexuality as its norm and if it moves the
entire world in that regard, the whole world is then going to be
sitting like Sodom and Gomorrah before a Holy God. And when the wrath
of God comes on this earth, we will all be guilty and we will all
suffer for it." - 700 Club, 9-6-9534
Compare that last quote of Robertson's to the following quote of
Hitler on syphilis.
"...they speak of this whole field as if it were a great sin, and
above all express their profound indignation against every sinner
caught in the act, then close their eyes in pious horror to this
godless plague and pray God to let sulfur and brimstone preferably
after their own death rain down on this Sodom and Gomorrah, thus once
making an instructive example of this shameless humanity."39
Such evidence, as Robertson's words, abounds that they would persecute
gays, it abounds in the numerous ballot measures in various states
that would deny gays their civil rights. Such a measure passed in
Colorado, only to be overturned by the Supreme Court. Another measure,
led by Lon Mabon in Oregon failed state wide, but was reintroduced on
local ballots in the following election. Mabon has also led ballot
measures to limit the concept of a family and limiting abortions to
only the first trimester. The first was another attempt to limit the
rights of gays.
In June 1998, near Jasper, Texas a black man named James Byrd was
dragged behind a pickup. Body parts were found over a two mile length
of the roadway.35 It is too early for trends in hate crimes to emerge,
as the FBI only began tracking hate crimes in 1991. The one trend that
does seem to be emerging is the hate crimes are becoming increasingly
violent as evident from the murders of Shepard and Byrd. The real
danger of these two murders is they serve to desensitize us, leading
to more numerous and increasing levels of violence, just as the Nazis
used increasing levels of violence against the Jews.
Racism is reemerging in various forms in the 1990s in political issues
and in the Republican Party. "English only" laws are being promoted
with increasing frequency by various Republican candidates, including
Robert Dole, and have even appeared on some ballot measures such as
California Prop 187. The obvious targets are immigrants from Mexico.
In effect, its nothing more than the reemergence of nativism. Other
forms of nativism have appeared, such as denying immigrants access to
welfare and the school system for children of immigrants. Nativism is
also behind various immigration bills and the increasing efforts
directed at illegals.
Perhaps the most dangerous form of racism to emerge has been the
Republican efforts to 'monitor' the polls. And videotape those
leaving. Cases have arisen in the 1998 election in North Carolina,
Georgia, Michigan, Maryland, Kentucky, Texas and Maine. The efforts
are directed primarily at districts in which have a high percentage of
minorities. Such efforts serve no useful purpose and do constitute a
violation of the Voting Rights Act.36 More disturbing is the Chief
Justice of the Supreme Court, William Rehnquist, served as the
director of Republican 'ballot security' in the poor areas of Phoenix,
Arizona between 1958-1962.37 He likewise wrote a pro separate but
equal memo as a law clerk for Justice Robert Jackson. All of which was
brought out in his confirmation hearings.
An even more subtle effort on the part of Republicans in denying votes
to the minorities and the poor is centered on the debate to allow a
statistical correction to the 2000 census. Such effort on the part of
the Republicans goes far beyond the election of 2000. The census will
be used to reapportionment of the congressional districts for the
decade. Thus, by denying the correction, they in effect are
perpetuating their power to 2010 by undercounting groups that
historically vote for Democrats
n Dec 1998, Republican House member Bob Barr and Senator Trent Lott
were exposed as keynote speakers before the Council of Conservative
Citizens, a racist organization. Lott was later determined to have
been an honorary member and had written several articles for their
paper dating back to the early 1990s. In January, Republican National
Chairman, Jim Nicholson asked members to dissociate themselves from
this group and directly appealed to national committee member Buddy
Witherspoon from South Carolina to resign. The request was refused.38
Once before, the Republicans were asked to denounce the radical John
Birch Society at their National Convention in the early 1960s.
Moderate members such as the former President Jerry Ford, did so.
However the measure failed.
Another Republican that deserves mention here is Pat Buchanan and his anti-Semitic views. Buchanan has opposed virtually all civil rights bills and favorable court decisions; he has supported apartheid in South Africa; he has spewed forth views of Holocaust denial; he has called fascists such as Franco and Pinochet soldier-patriots. And Buchanan was a key figure in urging Reagan to visit the SS cemetery in Bitburg.40
Thus as we prepare to enter a new century, the Republican Party has
adopted racism as a divisionist tool to divide the electorate in an
attempt to maintain power and enact their extremist agenda. Not all
members of the Republican Party are racist, but many of the members
from the hard right that controls the party are racists. There are
honorable members of the party, but they are being forced into lesser
and lesser roles. The extremists have gained control. It is the burden
of those honorable members to take back control of their party and
denounce the extremist before it becomes too late.
 Perhaps the best assessment of the use of destructive divisionism by
fascist in the United States comes from a 1945 War department
publication:
"Three Ways to Spot U.S. Fascists.
Fascists in America may differ slightly from fascists in other
countries, but there are a number of attitudes and practices that they
have in common. Following are three. Every person who has one of them
is not necessarily a fascist. But he is in a mental state that lends
itself to the acceptance of fascist aims.
1.Pitting religion, racial, and economic groups against one another in
order to break down the national unity is a device of the divide and
conquer technique used by Hitler to gain power in Germany and in other
countries. With slight variations, to suit local conditions, fascists
everywhere have used this Hitler method. In many countries, anti-
Semitism is a dominant devise of fascism. In the United States native
fascists have often been anti-Catholic, anti-Jew, anti-Negro, anti-
Labor and anti-foreign born. In South America native fascists use the
same scapegoats except that they substitute anti-Protestantism for
anti-Catholicism.
Interwoven with the master race theory of fascism is a well planned
hate campaign against minority races, religions, and other groups. To
suit their particular needs and aims, fascists will use any one or a
combination of such groups as a convenient scapegoat.
2. Fascism cannot tolerate such religious and ethical concepts as the
brotherhood of man. Fascists deny the need for international
cooperation. These ideas contradict the fascist theory of the master
race. The color, race, creed or nationality-have rights. International
cooperation, as expressed in the Dumbarton Oaks proposals, run counter
to the fascist program of war and world domination. Right now our
native fascists are spreading anti-British, anti-Soviet, anti-French
and anti-United nations propaganda.
3. It is accurate to call a member of a communist party a communist.
For short, he is often called a Red. Indiscriminate pinning of the
label Red on people and proposals which one opposes is a common
political device. It is a favorite trick of native as well as foreign
fascists.
Many fascists make the spurious claim that the world has but two
choices---either fascism or communism and they label as communist
everyone who refuses to support them. By attacking our free
enterprise, capitalist democracy and by deny the effectiveness of our
way of life they hope to trap many people."74

The extreme anti-communism and anti-socialism stance of the fascist is
beyond dispute among honest historians. Both communists and socialists
were the first to enter the concentration camps in Nazi Germany. Both
Mussolini and Franco fought against communist influence. From the
brief survey of the fascist philosophers and extreme anti-liberal
stance has been a factor in fascism from the beginning. The Nazi used
socialism as a ruse to gain power, but once in power they purged the
socialists within their party. The following quotes taken from Mein
Kampf will illuminate the anti-communism, anti-parliamentary
democracy, and the social darwinism of Hitler.
"Just as in 1918 we paid with our blood for the fact that in 1914 and
1915 we did not proceed to trample the head of Marxist serpent once
and for all, we would have to pay most catastrophically if in the
spring of 1923 we did not avail ourselves of the opportunity to halt
the activity of the Marist traitors and murders of the nation for
good"41 >
"As regards the possibility of putting these ideas into practice, I
beg you not to forget that the parliamentary principle of democratic
majority rule has by no means always dominated mankind, but to the
contrary is to be found only in brief periods of history, which are
always epochs of decay of peoples and states."42
"The best state constitution and state form is that which, with the
most unquestioned certainty, raises the best minds in the national
community to leading position and leading influence.
But as in economic life, the able men cannot be appointed from above,
but must struggle through for themselves,..."43
The second quote certainly is anti-liberal as it shows Hitler's
contempt for the democratic process. The last quote reveals Hitler as
a social Darwinist of which Turner makes the point in several places
in his book.44 Social Darwinism runs counter to the aims of socialism.
In fact it is the antithesis. It allows the elite to gain further
power, it willingly discards the poor and the weak as expendables.
With the anti-communism stance and social Darwinism character of
Hitler, it is not surprising that the fascist in America would come
from the extreme right. The United States was right in opposing
communism. But to what links? As with anything else moderation is an
admirable quality, excesses of any nature are damaging. Truman or
Eisenhower were not fascists for their anti-communism actions.
However, Tail Gunner Joe was either a fascist or a willing dupe of
fascists. The type of anti-communism of McCarthy served no other
purpose than to further his political career. He openly violated the
right to free speech and assembly of his victims. His aim was to
destroy them with out any regard to the evidence.
The social Darwinism as initiated by Reagan and his attacks on the
poor, and the dismantling of the welfare program led by Newt Gingrich
will also be labeled as examples of creeping fascism. Throwing people
into the streets arbitrarily to fend for themselves is destructive; it
is social Darwinism at its worst. Forcing them to except wages below
the minimum wage law is denying them their equal rights. But it was
precisely the economic woes of Germany that allowed the Nazis to rise
to power. Currently America is enjoying good economic times, but when
the economy takes a turn to the south the full impact of the lack of a
social safety net is going to be felt hard.
The next trait of fascism, extreme exploitation, is a direct result of
one of the primary traits of fascism, extreme nationalism. The form of
nationalism promoted by fascism not only concerns the standing in the
world but also applies to the sacrifices that are expected of
citizens. In short, the fascist state reigns supreme while the
individuals are subordinate to the state. The subordination of
individuals to the state is the antithesis of liberalism. Once again
some quotes from Mein Kampf will suffice.
"Since for us the state as such is the only form, but the essential is
its content, the nation, the people, it is clear that everything else
must be subordinated to its sovereign interests."45
"a peace, supported not by the palm branches of tearful, pacifist
female mourners, but based on the victorious sword of a master people,
putting the world into the service of a higher culture."46
Certainly from those two quotes there can be no question of the
subordination of individuals as practiced under the Nazis or to any
limits short of world domination by the Nazis. It is often stated that
Hitler left a road map to his future goals in Mein Kampf. There is no
greater evidence of that than in the last quote. How then did he rise
to power? The problem was nobody was listening. Nobody challenged his
aggressive views toward war, or at best they believed that they could
control or contain him. Only later did they find out the errors of
that false assumption.
This writer can find only two instances of this extreme exploitation
in America. Thanks to the efforts of CBS 60 Minutes and Evening News,
the story broke about the Tomb of the Unknown and how the Reagan White
House pressured the military to find an unknown to bury on Memorial
Day 1984. Turns out that in their haste to respond to the pressure
coming from the White House, they deliberately buried a fallen soldier
that wasn't so unknown. The unknown was Michael Bassie. This man had
given everything to his country except for his name. And the lowlife
filth occupying the White House had that stripped from him so he could
have a photo op on Memorial Day in an election year. This writer can
think of no other action that is more despicable; it's unforgivable.
Of course Reagan made sure he was the star of this photo op and used
it to promote and build support for his extremist military agenda.
The second instance comes at the hands of Newt Gingrich and the
Republicans of the 104th and 105th Congress. They have stripped the
rights of welfare recipients and required that they participate in
workfare. The problem comes in that these poor souls are not even
entitled to be paid the minimum wage or the right to unionize in some
cases. In other words, the Republican's answer to the poor is to force
the to work in perpetual slavery with no chance of ever breaking out
of poverty.
But this event is much more dangerous and goes much further than it
appears. The danger here lies in the suspension of the constitutional
equality under the eyes of the law. The Republicans have in effect
created a sub-class in which one of the very fundamental tenets of our
constitution, equality under the eyes of the law was ignored and
thrown out the window. Nor is this the only example of unequal
treatment of the poor at the hands of the Republicans. They also have
advocated cut backs in the budget for the public defender's office.
The Republicans have been very successful in their propaganda in
demonizing the poor. There seems to be an almost gutter level hatred
of the poor and any aid to assist them. Instead of reaching out a
compassionate helping hand towards the poor, the Republicans have
adopted a mean spirited social Darwinist view.
This brings us to the trait of opportunistic ideology of fascism. It
is perhaps one of the more confusing aspects of fascism. Mussolini
appears to have been indeed a socialist before founding the fascist
party. Mussolini likewise went from a pacifist to a rabid warmonger.
Clearly such dramatic changes in ideology could only be based in an
opportunistic grab for power. Mussolini started supporting a
syndicalism economy, but by 1923, with clear objections from business
leaders, he concluded the Palazzo Chigi Pact. This pact's main intent
was to simplify business relations by making the fascist the sole
representative of labor. In 1925, the Plazzo Vidoni agreement was
signed. This agreement made Rossoni's union the sole representative of
labor. It likewise prohibited the challenging of factory management.
By the close of the year, the grateful employer's federation publicly
announced adherence to the fascist regime.48 Such transformations
illistrate the opportunistic ideology present in fascism or is it a
lack of ideology, as well as further dispeling the myth that fascism
is another form of socialism.
Part of the problem with the ever-changing ideology of fascism arises
from the divisionism. Strasser was a socialist and it seems that
Goebbels was a Marxist. Both were allowed almost free reign in
promoting their own economic views as long as it gathered more support
of serve Hitler's purpose. But once their views failed to serve
Hitler, they were then brow beaten severely. An example of such
reversal in party ideology of the Nazis occurred on February 14,1926.
Prior to this date, both Strasser and Goebbels had approved of a
plebiscite campaign to deprive former royalty of their possessions, a
measure, that was popular with the common citizens. On the given date,
Hitler summoned both men to a meeting in Bamberg. Before those
gathered, Hitler forced both to capitulate and abandon the program.49
Similar events have already been given, in which various Nazis were
initially allowed to promote socialism in efforts to appease the lower
classes in an effort to gain their support.
Examples abound throughout the history of the Nazis where they adopted
their ideology to suit the audience. In October 1932, Strasser
announced a new program that was a stark reversal of the program the
Nazis had advocated in July. Higher taxes on the rich had been
replaced with a general reduction of taxes, instead of price controls
it centered on freeing prices. Instead of protectionism trade policy,
export and global trade was now promoted. Likewise, much of the
inflammatory rhetoric had been dropped.50
Hitler seems to have sensed the explosive nature of economics and
tried to avoid the subject both publicly and within the party. From
all indications, he was dissatisfied with the party planks on economic
matters. The only official stance on economic matters was the 1920
twenty-five point program. However, he only referred to this policy
document disparagingly in Mein Kampf and distanced himself from the
document.51 Likewise Hitler would never take an aggressive stance on
minor issues, he played to his audience to win their support.
Perhaps the most dramatic evidence of the opportunistic character of
the Nazis is illustrated by the actions of thirty-nine businessmen in
November 1932. The group contained such notables as Krupp, Thyssen,
Bosch, Siemens, and others. In a signed letter to Hindenburg they
urged him to appoint Hitler as chancellor. In essence they were
placing a bet that the socialism ideology was a fraud and that once in
power he would be a tool of capitalist.52
The only other reversal in policy that could rival the bet that the
leaders of big business made was Hitler's writings. In the first part
of Mein Kampf he argued that France was the sworn and greater enemy of
Germany. However, the second part to Mein Kampf he reversed course and
argued that Russia was the enemy as opposed to the first book in which
he proposed an alliance with Russia.53 This was a complete change in
his foreign policy. One can only speculate as to the reasons behind
such a switch.
Many writers have tried to label the Nazis as socialists in a folly to
distance themselves from fascist theory. They are quick to point to
the syndicalism policy as proof of socialist regulation of business.
They are in error, of course. Syndicalism is neither left nor right in
itself. It can be either, depending upon the political structure.
Syndicalism with labor groups or consumers dominating the issues would
indeed be socialistic in nature. On the other hand, syndicalism with
only industry or business groups dominating is certainly from the
right wing of the political spectrum. The issuing of controls or goals
over the production of war material by the government in a syndicalism
system is neither left nor right, it's simply self-preservation. The
goals and controls, including the 4-Year Plan issued by Goring, were
nothing more than gearing the economy up for war time production. In
essence, they were merely self-preservation measures.

>

Secondly, they will point toward many of the public works projects
that were implemented under the Nazis as examples of socialism. An
example of this is the construction of the autobahn, a project that
had been planned by previous governments, as were many of the public
work projects. They likewise forget that the Nazis took over at the
bottom of an economic depression, public work projects were enacted
not only in Germany, but in the U. S. as well as a means to end the
depression. Many of those projects in the U. S. were the construction
of useful infrastructure, such as the building of the high school in
New Ulm, Minnesota. Others had a definite commercialism bent to them,
such as the construction of Timberline Lodge on Mount Hood in Oregon.
Labeling the construction of a facility for a commercial business as
socialism is simply fools folly. The same applies to many of the
public works projects that were implemented under the Nazis.
Labeling such programs as socialism would be the same as labeling the
construction of the interstate highway system as socialism. If the
Eisenhower administration had one shinning moment, it was his support
for the construction of the freeway system. For those that are silly
enough to label such work as socialism, let them be reminded that no
other single event, other than the construction of the cross
continental railroad aided the development of business. Besides the
obvious advantage to shippers, the interstate highway system has
spawned many new businesses. Think of the number of motels/hotels as
well as the tourist traps, service stations, and others that have
grown up along the freeway system. The same applies to Germany and the
autobahn.
Finally, the same writers that label fascism as socialism would like
their readers to believe that these government regulations and
bureaucratic offices held ultimate power. Failure to comply would
result in the owners being shot. Nothing could be further from the
truth. The Nazis for a large part lived in fear of the leaders of big
business. They were aware that they had no comprehensive economic plan
and would defer to the judgement of the business leaders.
This point can be driven home with one simple example. Goering was one
of the Nazis that had little economic knowledge, but harbored some of
the more radical economic ideas and was fond of using regulatory
offices. Goering tried first to persuade the steel industry, both the
smelters and miners, to use low-grade German ore as opposed to the
high-grade Swedish ore. Importation of ore from Sweden would use up
precious foreign currency, as well as being a less reliable source in
the event of war. The invasions of Denmark and Norway were conducted
solely to protect the Nazis shipping routes for the Swedish ore. Most
of the industrialists politely refused Goering's request; even under
threats of arrest for sabotage, they still declined.54 None were
arrested for refusal. Instead Goering formed the Herman Goering Works
to take on the task. By the time of the outbreak of the war it had
evolved to be one of the largest companies in Germany.
Farben is another example of the Nazis bowing to the expertise of
leading corporations. With the advent of the first 4-Year Plan, they
realized they needed the cooperation of business leadership in order
to achieve self-sufficiency in a series of raw materials and finished
products. Most of which were items would be crucial to wartime
production. By the end of the war Farben, had a series of factories
around concentration camps, were major users of slave labor, along
with Krupp and many other corporations.
But the most damning evidence of the Nazi's unbridled corporatism was
evident shortly after passage of the Enabling Act, when Hjalmar
Schacht was appointed president of the Reichsbank. Schacht was a
brilliant financier who helped negotiate the Dawes Plan and was
largely responsible for stabilizing the currency in 1923; he also
detested democracy and parliamentarianism. His first official act was
the creation of Metall-Forschungsgesellschaft A.G. (Mefo), a dummy
corporation of four armament firms. The state assumed the liability
for their debts. The Mefo bills were not unlike promissory notes, they
were issued to government contractors and could be extended to five
years.55 Such favoritism of business is certainly not socialism. Today
in America such corporate aid is labeled as corporate welfare. Note
the similarity here not only to the present corporate welfare that's
being doled out, but also to Eisenhower's warning of the military-
industrial complex. The American military-industrial complex didn't
need to invent a new plan, they were simply free to follow the example
the Nazis used. In fact fascism is inseparatable from corporatism. You
simply cannot have a fascist government without corporations and a
capitalistic economy.
Schacht was later appointed to minister of economics in 1934, a post
he retained until he resigned in 1937 over policy disputes. He was not
an anti-Semitic and was conscious of the negative aspects of the
takeover of Jewish business on both the economy and world opinion. By
1936, he was advocating slowing down the rearmament program, fearing
the return of inflation.56 The return of inflation dispenses with the
myths that the Nazis maintained strict control of corporations and the
prices of goods in short order. In effect, such controls were non-
existent. It should also be pointed out here that the economy at this
time had taken on considerable shades of a consumer economy.
Italy used their form of syndicalism to eliminate labor unions; the
Nazis followed a similar path. The workers benefited little from this
unbridled corporatism. Unemployment went from an official figure of
six million unemployed in 1933, to 2.7 million in 1937, and by the
time of the outbreak of war there was a serious shortage of workers.
But growth in wages was far less spectacular, real wages rose only
sparingly. The index of wages rose from 92.5 in 1933 to 103 in 1937,
an increase of a meager eleven-percent.57 Much of the increase in
wages was achieved only from working longer hours. The only real
increases in the plight of the workers came with more unpaid leave.
Many of the other benefits produced no real benefits to the worker,
such as the factory beautification program.
From looking at the philosophers of fascism, it was revealed that
fascism was a reactionary movement. What then was the fascist reacting
to that led to the rise of Mussolini and Hitler? Many people
responding to the question would simply answer the Treaty of
Versailles. But such an answer is only partially correct. It doesn't
account for the widespread rise of fascism in many European countries
following WWI. In fact, during the period between the two world wars,
every government from the Rhine to the Pacific underwent drastic
changes. In many of those fascism had ample support but in the end was
rejected. Some of the problem can be laid to the beginning dissolution
of the British Empire and the arbitrary way in which maps were redrawn
following WWI without regard to ethnic or natural barriers. An example
would be the cobbled mess of ethnic groups that formed the former
republic of Yugoslavia, an area that remains a hot spot today.
Britain and the United States were about the only two governments that
did not undergo a major change during the period between the wars.
However, neither was immune to the rise of fascism. The U. S. saw a
rise of a great many fascist groups and groups closely aligned with
the fascist in the period between the wars. The German Bund, the
Silver Shirts and the mother's movement were all aligned closely with
fascism. It was also this period that seen the greatest membership in
the Ku Klux Klan.
The United States avoided full-blown fascism by essentially adopting
fascist methods on a milder scale. This was a shameful period in the
history of America. The infamous Palmer raids rounded up those with
communist connections. The I.W.W was harassed constantly by Hoover and
the FBI. In short, only those with non-approved political beliefs
would be prosecuted. This suppression of liberty had actually begun
around 1900. At the turn of the century, both conservative and liberal
elements combined to pass a blizzard of new laws. This effort aimed at
curbing lawless quickly became dominated by conservative elements and
evolved in a tool for the right wing for the remainder of the century.
As head of the FBI, Hoover quickly targeted the leaders of the left
for prosecution, ignoring the criminal actions of the hard right
groups. This has left the United States without any noticeable left
wing compared to the rest of the industrial world.
Perhaps one of the first and most notable events was the trial of
Sacco and Vanzetti, two immigrants charged with murder in
Massachusetts. They were found guilty more on their political beliefs
than on evidence. They were anarchists, atheists, and reportedly draft
dodgers, beliefs that threatened the industrialists of the time.64
Both were executed after considerable protest. Their trial set a
dangerous standard that people could be prosecuted for their political
beliefs. The inclusion of this trial here is to serve as a reminder of
a new problem that is emerging to confront the hard right, jury
nullification. Today there is considerable debate from both sides of
the political spectrum on jury nullification arising in death penalty
and drug cases. It warrants close observation. If the public becomes
too polarized, it could spell the end to the trial by jury system,
which has served admirably for over 200 years.
Various members of the right wing are now using this as an issue in
another attempt to polarize the electorate for their own selfish
purposes. These members of the right wing are promoting a system of
justice backed by mob or vigilante justice. Essentially, it's a system
backed by violence that is not unlike the tactics used by the Posse
Comitatus, the Freemen, or various militias to corrupt the justice
system.
The first example of political repression came in Minnesota. The then
Republican Governor Burnquist used the newly created Minnesota
Commission of Public Safety to suspend New Ulm's Mayor Fritsche and
City Attorney Pfaender for their pacifist views after war had been
declared on Germany in 1917. The following quote details some of the
shameful actions taken by the commission and its connection to the
hard right.
In April 1917, soon after America declared war on Germany, the
Minnesota Legislature, following ferocious debate, created the
Minnesota Commission of Public Safety. This remarkable body, chaired
and appointed by the governor, was given "all necessary power" to
maintain order and enhance Minnesota's contribution to the war effort.
Technically limited by the state and federal constitutions, the
commission essentially wielded all the authority of state government
during the 18 months of its active existence. >
The commission came to be dominated by representatives of the Twin
Cities business community. It used its sweeping authority with gusto,
not only to root out ``disloyalty'' but to combat labor unionism and
agrarian activism as well.
The commission dispatched detectives throughout Minnesota to
investigate people and organizations suspected of disloyalty. It
regulated food prices and the liquor trade, imposing prohibition in
some parts of the state. It banned union organizing and intervened on
the side of management in a bitter Twin Cities streetcar strike. It
created a ``Home Guard'' of some 8,000 troops to back up its decrees.
The commission served as a virtual campaign committee for Republican
Gov. Joseph Burnquist in his 1918 re-election bid. It turned a blind
eye toward frequent mob harassment of his opponents. It interrogated
and intimidated Minnesotans who declined to purchase Liberty Bonds to
finance the war effort.63
Nor was such action confined to just Minnesota, many states set up
similar commissions. State sponsored violence against leaders from the
left was common place. One group that suffered immeasurably was the
I.W.W, the Wobblies. On Nov 5, 1916, Washington State suffered its
bloodiest labor battle of all time. The resulting carnage between a
local sheriff and the Wobblies left seven dead and over fifty wounded
in the city of Everett.65
All three of these events illustrate that the United States repressed
those with radical ideas in the time period of WWI and immediately
thereafter. Pacifist, labor leaders, and leftist political leaders
were all prosecuted with equal zeal. Remember, this was the time
period of the Rosewood incident and other atrocities. The prosecution
was lead by the hard right and business leaders.
But the real answer to the question is that fascism following WWI was
a reaction to the Bolshevik revolution and the rise of liberalism
ideals. Up until the Russian revolution, the only economic system was
capitalism. Communism was a new revolutionary system. It threatened
the power elite directly and gave way to a rise not only in communism
but socialism and liberalism as well. It was no accident that fascism
arose first in Italy, where in the period of 1919-1922, socialists
ruled in many localities. Here fascism arose in the countryside were
old practices such as sharecropping were giving way to new methods. In
1920, the largest strike in Italian agriculture ever was settled when
the landowners capitulated. Elsewhere, unions were wringing out
concessions from the owners through strikes and boycotts.58
The real appeal of European fascism was the protection it afforded
against working class movements, socialism, and communism.59 Hobsbawm
states it even more forcefully in claiming that without the October
revolution and Leninism there would have been no need for fascism. For
up until that time, the demagogic right, although politically active
and noisy in many countries, had been kept in check.60 The entire Nazi
movement was a reactionary movement. The reaction to the Treaty of
Versailles is well known and needs no further comment, as is the
opposition of fascism to liberalism, socialism and communism. Rather,
the following quote will show how complete the reaction was to the
events of the time.
"Today Christians... stand at the head of Germany... I pledge that I
never will tie myself to parties who want to destroy Christianity...We
want to fill our culture again with the Christian spirit... We want to
burn out all the recent immoral developments in literature, in the
theater, and in the press- in short, we want to burn out the poison of
immorality which has entered into our whole life and culture as a
result of liberal excess during the past...few years."61 <
The quote above was taken from a speech delivered by Hitler. It
provides the illustration that the Nazi movement was completely a
reactionary movement, reacting not only to global power politics and
the rise of the left, but also to the changes in arts and culture of
the time. It also provides the link to demonstrate that today's hard
right movement in the U. S. is equally reactionary, in particular, the
element of the so-called religious right. Contrast it with the quote
by Pat Robertson below.
"The Constitution of the United States, for instance, is a marvelous
document for self-governmentby Christian people. But the minute you
turn the document into the hands of non-Christian and atheistic people
they can use it to destroy the very foundation of our society."-Pat
Robertson (The 700 Club, Dec. 30, 1981)62
Apparently, Robertson is under the impression that the constitution
applies to only those he chooses and is null and void for the rest of
us. Hitler held a similar contempt for democracy. However, the point
that the Nazis were reactionary has been established beyond any doubt.
The reaction was not just confined to the global political scene or
economic conditions, but extended into the very roots of the culture.
Starting around 1980, fascism reared its ugly head globally. Unlike
the rise of fascism in the 1920s, this time the Reagan administration
embraced it. The administration openly promoted class warfare, allowed
the LaRocuhians access to security and intelligence agencies, filled
the EPA with Coor's lackeys, and openly supported none but the elite.
In essence, the Reagan administration was the American equivalent of
the passage of the Enabling Act.
There is no need to expand on the violent behavior of the Nazis or
fascists, as there is no dispute of their long history of violence.
Instead, the violence of various groups in the United States will be
explored. Many readers will immediately think of the violence that
arose in the 60s during the war protests. In fact, that is the great
illusion of the media. The truth is that little violence was directly
attributed to war protestors. In fact much of the violence that did
come out of the war protests was the work of the FBI.
The real story of violence in the 60s was the violence inflicted upon
the civil rights workers by the Klan. The early part of the 60s was
marred by violence, inspired by the Klan and racial hatred of right
wing groups. Eisenhower had to use National Guards to integrate the
Little Rock school system. Kennedy had to use federal marshals to
integrate Old Miss. When the Supreme Court order that busing was to be
used as a tool for integration, the violence spread nationally. The
Klan burnt school busses in Michigan to prevent integration.
Since 1980, right wing groups such as the Order, which murdered the
Denver talk show host, Berg, likewise have dominated the violence. The
leader of the Order was killed in a shoot out with law enforcement.
Another right wing group, the Posse Comitatus became a household word
only after the Kahl shoot out with law enforcement in North Dakota.
And of course there was the bombing of the Oklahoma federal building
by the right winger McVeigh. Perhaps the greatest widespread use of
violence since the Klan has been the bombing and violence directed
against abortion clinics by members of the religious right.
Violence has been the hallmark of the hard right in America dating
back at least as far as the Know Nothing Party in the 1800s and their
hatred of Catholics. It was business leaders that hired Pinkertons to
murder union organizers in earlier times. Yet there is relatively
little in the way to support that left wing groups were equally
violent. Groups like the Weathermen were violent, but the group was
never more than a small fringe group. Its extremely small size limited
the extent of its violence. One of the reasons for the lack of
widespread violence from leftist groups has already been mentioned,
the suppression of left wing groups by the FBI.
The last two traits of fascism will be explored together, as they are
related by an underlying use of symbols and the inseparable nature of
cults and religions. There is no doubt that both Hitler and Mussolini
were in effect leaders of a cult. Their extremist views would rule out
a major following otherwise. In fact, both promoted imagines
consistent with cults. Both chose to use propaganda to promote larger
than life imagines of themselves. Both Hitler and Mussolini were
Catholics; neither appeared to be particularly active members of the
church. Hitler referred to Christianity throughout Mein Kampf, as
already shown by quotes of which a few more will be included here.
"The sword will become our plow, and from the tears of war the daily
bread of future generations will grow."
"The more the linguistic Babel corroded and disorganized parliament,
the closer drew the inevitable hour of the disintegration of this
Babylonian Empire and with it the hour of freedom for my German-
Austria people."
< " the Lord's grace smiled on his ungrateful children." >
Officially, the Nazis were a Christian group, if one can assign a
religion to the group by the public policies they enacted. In this
case, the assignment is based on the following prayer that the Nazis
required to be recited in all public schools.
"Almighty God, dear heavenly Father. In Thy name let us now, in pious
spirit, begin our instruction. Enlighten us, teach us all truth,
strengthen us in all that is good, lead us not into temptation,
deliver us from all evil in order that, as good human beings, we may
faithfully perform our duties and thereby, in time and eternity, be
made truly happy. Amen."67
It is also true that the Nazis dabbled in mysticism as well. Certainly
some of the philosophers were pantheistic. But what really underlies
both the religious and mysticism aspects of the Nazis is the symbolism
buried underneath. In fact, one follower of fascism believed that the
masses were unable to understand anything other than mere slogans.
From Mein Kampf the following quote concerns the symbolism hidden
behind the Nazi flag.
" Not only that the unique colors, which all of us so passionately
love and which once won so much honor for the German people, attest
our veneration for the past; they were also the best embodiment of the
movement's will. As National Socialists, we see our program in our
flag. In red we see the social idea of the movement, in white the
nationalistic idea, in the swastika the mission of the struggle for
victory of the Aryan man, and by the same token, the victory of the
idea of creative work, which as such always has been and always will
be anti-Semitic."66
At first in the quote above, Hitler is referring to the old flag of
Germany. The choice of red was based on stealing from the communists
and was chosen deliberately to enflame the Marxists. Throughout Mein
Kampf, Hitler refers to the value of propaganda and made extensive use
of symbols to convene a subtle message of hatred.
The similarities to the right wing in America is seen. The Republicans
have introduced a flag desecration amendment to protect their
symbolism. Even more revealing was the letter Newt Gingrich
distributed to members of GOPAC. In this letter, members were to use
the following words to impart a negative image: decay, failure, sick,
liberal, unionized, welfare, corrupt, greed and intolerant. The
following words were to impart a positive imagine: share, legacy,
control, truth, and courage.68
Cults are inherently fascist in nature. The leader demands total
submersion into the cult. America today has seen far too many examples
of cults and cult behavior. A recent example, would be the Waco
incident that ended badly. However, there are several right wing
groups that do exhibit cult behavior besides the religious groups; the
LaRouchians, many of the militias, and the Order would all qualify as
cults. In addition, much of the hard right inside the Republican Party
has taken on a cult like behavior in their idolizing Reagan. The 105th
Congress renamed the Washington airport after him. In the present
Congress Congressman Matt Salmmon of Arizona has introduced a bill to
deface Mt Rushmore by adding Reagan's imagine to the monument.69
It has been shown beyond any reasonable doubt that Hitler and the
Nazis were right wing extremists best described as social darwinists,
the antithesis of socialism. It was showed that the Nazis were best
described by syndicalism model and that syndicalism is neither
socialistic nor capitalistic, inherently. Syndicalism can be either
depending upon the makeup; the Nazis were definitely capitalists in
that there was no input from labor. All input was reserved for the
industrialist. Further, it was shown that the industrialists openly
defied Nazi desires in the case of the use of low-grade ores. It was
also shown that many of the businesses that was government owned were
taken over by the government prior to the Nazis, some dating all the
way from the monarchy. Likewise, it was shown that many of the Nazi
programs would be classified as corporate welfare today. And it was
shown that the real power behind the Nazi movement was the top
elitist. This should be sufficient for anyone to dispel the myth that
the Nazis were socialist, when in fact they were capitalistic
extremists.
In defining fascism, three traits stand above all others,
totalitarian, nationalism, and extreme corporatism. In fact, one can
not have fascism without corporatism. Other traits of fascism, such as
destructive divisionism and the use of violence are secondary. As
fascist ideology evolved in the later half of the 20th Century, a
happy face was put on fascism by its leaders as they down played the
violence and racism. This can be seen best in the far right wing
extremist groups currently active in the United States.
Additionally, there is one fact that absolutely places the Nazis and
fascism in the extreme right wing portion of the political spectrum,
and not the left. No one disputes that a communist revolution attacks
the ruling elite of a country. Similarly, socialism and liberalism
also attacks the same ruling elite, but the right wing extremists try
to claim the opposite. In reality these systems merely seek methods to
ease the burden and allow the lower classes to prosper rather than
attacking the elite. The Nazis, on the other hand, did not attack the
ruling elite of Germany. The rich industrialists were allowed to
continue their ways, eased by laws that the Nazis enacted for their
benefit. Likewise, the nobility of Germany was supported by the Nazis.
In short, the Nazis adopted the ruling elite in Germany and supported
them, the exact opposite of what a left leaning political ideology
would support.
There is no better proof of the Nazi support for the ruling elite than
looking at who supported Hitler in the 1930s in America. Granted, many
lower class people were involved in the pro-Hitler movement just as in
Germany. But like Germany, it was the rich industrialists that funded
these groups. Hearst ordered his newspapers to print pro-Nazi
articles. In fact, he had them print the Nazi propaganda directly from
Gobbels. Irenee du Pont funded several pro-fascist groups. Henry Ford
was well known for his praise of Hitler and funded many pro-Nazis in
the 30s. Andrew Mellon and John D. Rockefeller were supporters of
Hitler as well. No one is foolish enough to argue that these men were
not part of the ruling elite or rich industrialists in America at the
time. In fact, support for Hitler among the rich industrialists was
rampant.
The continued propagation of such nonsense by the present right wing
is nothing short of propaganda. It fits closely with the Nazis' use of
propaganda and the symbolism proposed by Gingrich and his negative
words. nor will it change the history of the right wing support of the
Nazis.

1. http://www.cuttingedge.org/news/n1124.cfm
2. Why Americans Hate Politics, E. J. Dionne, Touchstone, 1991,
p152-154.
3. Thomas Jefferson: In his Own Words, Maureen Harrison & Steve
Gilbert, Barnes & Noble, 1996, p369.
4. http://www.friesian.com/arthur.htm
5. http://www.miami.edu/phi/schopnh.htm
http://members.aol.com/KathorenaE/private/philo/Nietz/nietz.html
http://userzweb.lightspeed.net/~tameri/nietz.html
http://users.aol.com/Irdetrigen/index4.html
< http://www.us.itd.umich.edu/~alexboko/zar/
http://www.pitt.edu/~wbeurry/nietzsche.html
http://www.ewu.edu/~millerj/nietzsche.index.html
6. http://www.kirjasto.sci.fi/bergson.htm
7. Himmler, Peter Padfield, MJF books,1990, p260.
8. Mein Kampf, Adolf Hitler, Houghton Mifflin, 1971, p 394.
9. Mein Kampf, p325.
< 10. Lott renounces White Racialist Group He praised in 1992, Thomas
Edsell, Washington Post, Dec 16,1998.
11. http://www.cofcc.org/
12. Thirty Days, Henry Ashby Turner, Addison-Welsey, 1996, p5.
13. Thirty Days, p9-15.
14. Thirty Days, p164.
15. Mein Kampf, p645-646.<
16. Mein Kampf, p218.
17. Adolf Hitler, Robert Payne, Barnes & Noble,1995, p213.
18. Adolf Hitler, p237
19. Who Financed Hitler, James Pool, Pocket Books, 1997, p11.
< 20. Who Financed Hitler, p45
21. Who Financed Hitler, p83.<
22. U. S. Firms' Connections to Nazis Detailed, Reuters, 1/14/1999.
Appeared in Boston Globe of same date
23. German Big Business and the Rise of Hitler, Henry Ashby Turner,
Oxford University Press, 1985.
24. German Big Business, p151-152.
25. German Big Business, p198-200.
26. German Big Business, p159.
27. Trading with the Enemy, Charles Higham, Barnes & Noble,
1983,p131-132.
28. Hitler and His secret Partners, James Pool, Pocket Books,1997,
p52-53
29. The Rise and Fall of the Third Reich, William Schirer, Fawcett,
1992, p202.
30.The Rise and Fall, p203.
31. http://www.nizkor.org/hweb/imt/nca/nca-02-16-13-index.html
32. http://www.nizkor.org/hweb/imt/nca/
33. What Real Hate Speech Sounds Like, Jeff Jacony, Boston Globe, 11,
2, 1998.
34. http://www.tialliance.org/tia/page4.htm
35. A Trial of Alleged hate to Begin in Texas, AP wire, Boston Globe,
1, 24, 1999 .
36. Minority Voter Intimidation Becomes election Eve Issue, AP wire,
11, 3, 1998.
37. Quite and Odd Couple to Sit in Judgement, Jim Dwyer, New York
Daily news, 1, 7, 1999.
38. RNC Chiarman Urges Party Member to Leave Conservative Group, Glen
Johnson, AP wire, Boston Globe, 1, 19, 1999.
39. Mein Kampf, p248.
40. http://www.fair.org/current/buchanan-bigot.html<
41. Mein Kampf, p678.
42. Mein Kampf, p651.
43. Mein Kampf, p449.
44. Big Business &
45. Mein Kampf, p575.
46. Mein Kampf, p396.
47. Fascism, Roger Eatwell, Penguin, 1995, p149.
48. >Fascism, p77.
49. The Rise and Fall, p181. <
50. Big Business, p288.
51. Big Business, p 81
52. Hitler, John Toland, Doubleday, 1976, p276.<
53. Hitler, p221.
54. Fascism, p156.
55.Hitler, p308.
56. Fascism, p155.
57. Fascism, p160.
58. Fascism, p53-54.
59. The Age of Extremes, Eric Hobsbawm, Vintage Books, 1996, p 175.
60. The Age of Extremes, p124.
61. http://www.isrp.org/
62. http://www.tialliance.org/tia/page6.htm
63. http://www.pioneerplanet.com/archive/cent/dox/cent13.htm
64. http://www.english.upenn.edu/~afries/88/sacvan.html
65. http://www.ac.wwu.edu/~n9517146/everettmassacre.html
66. Mein Kampf, p498-499.
67. http://w3.trib.com/FACT/1st.religion.alert.html
68. http://www.fair.org/extra/9502/language-control.html
69. Reagan Wanted on Mt Rushmore, Rueters wire appearing in the 2/2/99
Boston Globe
70. The Road To Serfdom, F..A. Hayek, University of Chicago Press,
1994, Fiftieth Anniversary Edition.
71. The Road to Serfdom, p52.
72. The Road to Serfdom, p44. <
73. Fascism and Big Business, Daniel Guerin, Pathfinder, 1973,
p208-213
74. Time Bomb, E.A. Piller, Arco Publishing, 1945, p13-14.
75. Southern Exposure, Stetson Kennedy, DoubleDay, 1946, p189


1. The government must take steps to lower the cost of production and
widen the profit margin.
2. Lower taxes
3. Reduce the size of government.
4. Lower unemployment insurance benefit
5. The government must allow wages to progress to lower levels, by
voiding labor contracts and binding arbitration.
Michael Gordge
2011-07-24 00:01:42 UTC
Permalink
Post by Nickname unavailable
What Fascism Is & Isn't
No other word...............
Two million other words of utter leftist idiotic crap snipped.

Fascism is a political system requiring the humain individual to
sarifice his/her own standards, virtues values for a bogus fucking
glory.

The ONLY difference between socialism, communism, tribalism and
fascism is the name of the bogus fucking glory that the sacrifices
must be made for.

MG
Nickname unavailable
2011-07-24 02:48:17 UTC
Permalink
Post by Michael Gordge
Post by Nickname unavailable
What Fascism Is & Isn't
No other word...............
Two million other words of utter leftist idiotic crap snipped.
Fascism is a political system requiring the humain individual to
sarifice his/her own standards, virtues values for a bogus fucking
glory.
The ONLY difference between socialism, communism, tribalism and
fascism is the name of the bogus fucking glory that the sacrifices
must be made for.
MG
tsk, tsk, i think i struck a nerve. here is the true meaning of
fascism, and it sounds libertarian to me:)))))))))))))))))))))))

http://www.brainyquote.com/quotes/authors/b/benito_mussolini.html

Fascism should more appropriately be called Corporatism because it is
a merger of state and corporate power.
Benito Mussolini

Fascism should rightly be called Corporatism, as it is the merger of
corporate and government power.
Benito Mussolini


do you agree with these statements?

"We must take from state authority those functions for which it is
incompetent and which it performs badly... I believe the state should
renounce its economic functions, especially those carried out through
monopolies, because the state is incompetent in such matters... We
must put an end to state railways, state postal service and state
insurance."
"hasten the privatization of municipal enterprises."
"We have broken with the practice of persecuting capital."

they are very libertarian in nature:)))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))
Michael Gordge
2011-07-24 03:12:57 UTC
Permalink
 tsk, tsk,
Ewe fucking dumb and useless lying stuttering ignorant commie cunt,
there is nothing about libertarian ideation that requires ewe or
anyone to sacrifice your personal standards values virtues to anything
or anyone.

MG
Nickname unavailable
2011-07-24 05:24:55 UTC
Permalink
Post by Michael Gordge
 tsk, tsk,
Ewe fucking dumb and useless lying stuttering ignorant commie cunt,
there is nothing about libertarian ideation that requires ewe or
anyone to sacrifice your personal standards values virtues to anything
or anyone.
MG
which means you cannot refute the facts.

http://economistsview.typepad.com/economistsview/2006/09/the_origins_of_.html

Monday, September 11, 2006

The Origins of the Term "Privatization"

Michael Perelman on the origins of the term "privatization." I first
met Michael many, many years ago as an undergraduate at CSU Chico
where he was teaching:

The Nazi Heritage of Privatization, by Michael Perelman: Privatization
is very popular among laissez-faire types today. The recent issue of
the Journal of Economic Perspectives offers a ... tale in which the
term privatization is falsely credited to Peter Drucker. In fact,
Nazis coined the term. Their intent was to skew the distribution of
income toward the rich, with the objective of reducing consumption.
After all, the rich have a lower marginal propensity to consume.

The term seems to have been first introduced into academic social
science by Maxine Yaple Sweezy, wife of the distinguished Marxist
economist, Paul Sweezy.

Bel, Germa'. 2006. ""The Coining of "Privatization" and Germany's
National Socialist Party." Journal of Economic Perspectives, 20: 3
(Summer): pp. 187-94 [author web page link]: 187-8: "The standard
story on the coining of "privatization" reports that in 1969 Peter
Drucker used the term "reprivatization" in the sense that economists
understand it today. In The Age of Discontinuity (1969, p. 229),
Drucker makes a negative appraisal on the managerial capabilities of
the public sector: "Government is a poor manager …. It has no choice
but to be 'bureaucratic.'" Drucker's (p. 233) analysis of how
government works leads him to what he takes as "the main lesson of the
last fifty years: the government is not a doer." Thus, Drucker (p.
234) proposed adopting a "systematic policy of using the other, the
nongovernmental institutions of the society of organizations, for the
actual 'doing,' i.e., for performance, operations, execution. Such a
policy might be called 'reprivatization.'" Drucker referred to
"reprivatization" because he proposed giving back to the private
sector executive responsibilities that had been private before the
public sector took them over through nationalization and
municipalization starting in the last decades of the nineteenth
century."

189-90: "In the late 1930s and the early 1940s, a number of works were
devoted to the analysis of economic policy in Germany under the rule
of the National Socialist Party. One major work was Maxine Yaple
Sweezy's (1941) The Structure of the Nazi Economy. Sweezy stated that
industrialists supported Hitler's accession to power and his economic
policies: "In return for business assistance, the Nazis hastened to
give evidence of their good will by restoring to private capitalism a
number of monopolies held or controlled by the state" (p. 27). This
policy implied a large-scale program by which "the government
transferred ownership to private hands" (p. 28). One of the main
objectives for this policy was to stimulate the propensity to save,
since a war economy required low levels of private consumption. High
levels of savings were thought to depend on inequality of income,
which would be increased by inequality of wealth. This, according to
Sweezy (p. 28), "was thus secured by 'reprivatization' …. The
practical significance of the transference of government enterprises
into private hands was thus that the capitalist class continued to
serve as a vessel for the accumulation of income. Profit-making and
the return of property to private hands, moreover, have assisted the
consolidation of Nazi party power." Sweezy (p. 30) again uses the
concept when giving concrete examples of transference of government
ownership to private hands: "The United Steel Trust is an outstanding
example of 'reprivatization.'" This may be the first use of the term
"reprivatization" in the academic literature in English, at least
within the domain of the social sciences."

192-3: "The primary modern argument against privatization is that it
only enriches and entrenches business and political elites, without
benefiting consumers or taxpayers. The discussion here suggests a rich
historical irony: these modern arguments against privatization are
strikingly similar to the arguments made in favor of privatization in
Germany in the 1930s. As Sweezy (1941) and Merlin (1943) explicitly
point out, German privatization of the 1930s was intended to benefit
the wealthiest sectors and enhance the economic position and political
support of the elite. Of course, this historical connection does not
prove that privatization is always a sound or an unsound policy, only
that the effects of privatization may depend considerably on the
political, social and economic contexts. German privatization in the
1930s differed from the privatization of Volkswagen in the 1950s, and
both of these situations differ from, say, the British privatizations
of the 1980s, the Russian privatizations of the 1990s, or the
privatizations across Latin America over the last two decades."
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Bel, Germà (2006). "Retrospectives: The Coining of 'Privatisation'
and 
Germany's National Socialist Party". Journal of Economic
Perspectives 
20 (3): 187–194.
Two locations
http://www.ub.edu/graap/JEP.pdf
http://pubs.aeaweb.org/doi/pdfplus/10.1257/jep.20.3.187
 However, in the next sections I will document the word
"privatization" in 
 works published in the 1930s and early 1940s on
German economic policy, 
 and its recurrence in the 1950s and 1960s.
 One major work was Maxine Yaple Sweezy's (1941) The Structure of the
Nazi 
 Economy. Sweezy stated that industrialists supported Hitler's
accession to 
 power and his economic policies: "In return for
business assistance, the 
 Nazis hastened to give evidence of their
good will by restoring to private 
 capitalism a number of monopolies
held or controlled by the state" (p. 27). 
 This policy implied a
large-scale program by which "the government 
 transferred ownership
to private hands" (p. 28). One of the main objectives 
 for this
policy was to stimulate the propensity to save, since a war economy
 required low levels of private consumption. High levels of savings
were 
 thought to depend on inequality of income, which would be
increased by 
 inequality of wealth. This, according to Sweezy (p.
28), "was thus secured 
 by 'reprivatization'. . . . The practical
significance of the transference 
 of government enterprises into
private hands was thus that the capitalist 
 class continued to serve
as a vessel for the accumulation of income. 
 Profit-making and the
return of property to private hands, moreover, have 
 assisted the
consolidation of Nazi party power."




sounds very libertarian to
me:))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))
Beam Me Up Scotty
2011-07-24 17:11:13 UTC
Permalink
Post by Michael Gordge
Post by Nickname unavailable
What Fascism Is & Isn't
No other word...............
Two million other words of utter leftist idiotic crap snipped.
Fascism is a political system requiring the humain individual to
sarifice his/her own standards, virtues values for a bogus fucking
glory.
The ONLY difference between socialism, communism, tribalism and
fascism is the name of the bogus fucking glory that the sacrifices
must be made for.
MG
Their slogans and propaganda give away nuanced differences as to their
particular brand of tyranny...


But it's all tyranny.
--
Helping the poor use their money more wisely is better than government
gifts allowing more waste.

http://www.ebates.com/rf.do?referrerid=Ho50UCJGk3FsQj%2F6nmqZVA%3D%3D
Michael Price
2011-07-25 02:26:06 UTC
Permalink
It is _literally_  painful for her to think.
 it cannot be easy trying to suppress reality.
  Yeah but seeing as you are claiming that migraines are
evidence of mental illness you've definitely suceeded.
That and the fact you think North Korea is a free trade
economy is proof positive.  So anyway you were going to tell me
how libertarianism and fascism were "identical".  You know seeing
as they are diametrically opposed on gay rights, racial preferences,
imperialism, drug policy etc.
 you have been shown repeatedly. yet you claim ignorance, is that a
sign of a mental illness? could be:)
http://www.spiritone.com/~gdy52150/chpt1.htm
What Fascism Is & Isn't
No other word causes so much misunderstanding, confusion, and heated
debate in politics than fascism. The term has been applied to many
individuals such as McCarthy, Hoover, and others. It is frequently
used to describe government policies and government themselves, often
incorrectly. What then is fascism exactly? Webster's Dictionary
defines it as: "A government system marked by a centralized
dictatorship, stringent socioeconomic controls and belligerent
nationalism." But the author takes exception with that definition. At
best, the definition is vague and abstract. Nor does the definition
seem capable of taking into all forms of fascism.
There is a resurgent, widespread attempt by the far right to label
fascism as a form of socialism. Fredrick von Hayek was the first to
attempt labeling the Nazis as socialists in his book The Road to
Serfdom published in 1944.70 The hard right quickly adopted it,
No the "hard right" did not quickly adopt it. In fact they hated
it.
Libertarians adopted it, but you still have no evidence that they're
fascist.
as it
allowed the hard right to escape the charges that they had much in
common with the Nazis.
Such as what? Name a fucking similarity shitbag.
2 Such endeavors are not only silly, but
dishonest as well and represent an attempt by the far right to
distance themselves for their earlier support of Hitler.
When did libertarians support Hitler?
Hayek's book is based on two erroneous assumptions from the very
beginning. He first assumes that fascism and communism are one and the
same, as they are both totalitarian systems.
He assumes nothing of the kind. He simply points out that they are
similar.
This makes about as much
sense as calling a maple tree a pine tree because both are trees. His
second erroneous assumption lays in his belief that only socialism or
liberalism leads to totalitarian systems.
Again he assumes nothing of the kind, unless by "socialism" you mean
"having the government run things" which is by definition true since
all
totalitarian systems have the government running things.
In fact, all political
systems can lead to totalitarian systems and all political systems are
inherently unstable, as is any system created by man.
From there, Hayek takes severe liberties with history. For instance,
he goes on to claim that by deliberate policy the United States by
allowed the growth of cartels and syndicates after 1878.71 Indeed this
date and time period is significant, but not for a move towards
socialism or liberalism. Rather, it's the opposite a move towards
fascism and corporate rule.
The move was towards government control of the economy, exactly as
Hayek said.
Even a reader with a rudimentary knowledge
of American history would recognize this time frame as the beginning
of the robber baron era and laissez faire economics,
Bullshit.
precisely the
type of economic policy Hayek holds in utmost esteem.
 Hayek offers little proof to support his conclusions; in fact the
book is devoid of any proof or even examples to support his findings.
The book degenerates into an argument based upon unsubstantiated
assertion. He argues against the nation state and proposes a
supernational authority or world federation made up of the financial
elite.
Again bullshit.
In essence, Hayek proposes a world made up of sovereign
corporations accountable to no one. Not only did Hayek take severe
liberties with American history, he ignored the very nature of fascism
in Germany and Italy.
In various speeches made shortly after the March on Rome, Mussolini
stated, "We must take from state authority those functions for which
it is incompetent and which it performs badly... I believe the state
should renounce its economic functions, especially those carried out
through monopolies, because the state is incompetent in such
matters... We must put an end to state railways, state postal service
and state insurance." The state returned large monopolies to the
private sector after returning them to profitability such as the
Consortium of Match Manufactures, privatized the insurance system in
1923, the telephone system in 1925, and many of the public works.
These systems were completely controlled by government regulation of
the
corporations liar.
In Germany the Nazis announced they would end nationalization of
private industries when they seized power. In 1932, Hitler returned
control of the Gelsenkirhen company to private hands and in 1936
returned the stock of "United Steel" to private hands. Throughout
1933-1936, the Nazi returned to private hands the control of several
banks: Dresdner, Danat, Commerz and Privatbank, the Deutsche Bank, and
several others. In 1936, the steamship company Deutcher Schiff and
Maschinenbau was returned to the private sector. In 1934, Dr. Schacht,
the Nazi Minister of Economy, gave instructions to hasten the
privatization of municipal enterprises. These enterprises were
especially coveted by the rich industrialists, as they had been
prosperous even during the depression.
Wow, so some fascists denationalised while massively increasing the
government control of the companies that bought the assets. Yeah real
"identical" shitbag.
Both in fascist Italy and Nazi Germany, the tax system was changed to
one favoring business and the wealthy. The Nazis allowed industries to
deduct from their taxable income all sums used to purchase new
equipment. Rich families employing a maid were allowed to count the
maid as a dependent child and reap the tax benefit. In Italy, the
Minister of Finance stated: "We have broken with the practice of
persecuting capital."73
 Such programs, catering to big business and the rich elite, are more
akin to the policies of the Reagan Administration than it is to any
liberal administration including FDR's.
Bullshit. For a start FDR was all about cartelization just like the
fascists and
in any case you forget the massive increase in government control of
business.
Likewise, it was the rich
industrialists that were behind the fascist movement in the United
States during the 1930s. Thus it is no surprise that the right wing
attempts to try and label fascism as socialism in trying to distance
themselves from their previous support of fascism.
Perhaps the only redeeming feature in Hayek's book is his
acknowledgement of environmental problems.72 Indeed this is
significant, considering the book was first published in the 1940s,
long before the birth of the environmental movement. Hayek readily
acknowledges the problem of industrial pollution and the harmful
effects of deforestation, yet he stops short of any meaningful
solution. Instead of offering a viable solution Hayek condemns
government regulation and would allow market forces to provide the
solution. However, it was these same market forces that produced the
problem.
Again, bullshit, the main polluter is government and where it isn't
government
typically shields polluters.
We have plenty of proof of such a fool hearty approach both
here and globally. As late as the 1970s rivers caught fire in the
United States, cities were smog stricken and harmful pollutants were
damaging the environment world wide. Today we face the problems of
global warming and ozone depletion, and the problem of environmental
estrogens, which has the potential of being even more threatening than
both global warming and ozone depletion.
But perhaps the most damning of all evidence that Hayek was dead wrong
comes from the implementation of an economic system based on his
beliefs. Hayek later taught at the University of Chicago, the same
university that trained the "Boys from Chicago" who were the economic
brains behind the fascist regime of Pinochet in Chile.
Oh for god's sake Pinochet wasn't a follower of the Chicago school
and
he only adopted SOME of it's suggestions 2 YEARS after the coup and
only then because the economy was collapsing. After that the regime
was
considerably LESS fascist. This shit was debunked fucking years ago
shitbag.
There is no
question in the matter that under Pinochet, Chile was indeed fascist.
More alarming, Hayek is an idol to several top-level officials in the
George W. Bush administration. They are dangerous close to imposing a
fascist style economy on the United States.
Oh god you shithead, when have GWB or any of his cronies been even
vaguely libertarian? Seriously name a fucking time.
In order to dispel the myth of the Nazis being socialists we need to
first define socialism. Socialism is rigidly defined as an economic
system in which the workers own the means of production and
distribution of goods.
And under this rather contrived definition fascism isn't socialism,
but
neither is any other system that actually occurs.
A more relaxed definition would be simply that
the workers maintain political control over the production and
distribution of goods. Even using the more relaxed definition of
socialism, the Nazis can not be labeled as socialists as there simply
was no worker control over the production or distribution of goods in
Nazi Germany. In fact, the Nazis outlawed legitimate labor unions. In
place of the original unions, the Nazis implemented quasi-like unions
that were controlled by the industrialists. In a déjà vu manner, the
Republican Party has recently tried to enact a similar measure,
conferring legal status on worker groups controlled by corporations.
This is hardly "similar" since there was no banning of "legitimate"
unions.
Some writers and historians have argued that you cannot have fascism
without corporatism, as the corporate power structure has much in
common with fascism. During the period preceding the outbreak of WWII
it was common to refer to fascism as corporatism in polite English
society.
Yeah and you're trying to pretend "corporatism" means something like
"corporations having power" in fact it means the opposite.
More recently others have tried to define fascism as the "Third Way",
in the sense that it borrowed ideas from both capitalism and
socialism. The basic philosophy behind the "Third Way" incorrectly
labels any regulations or government controls over businesses as
socialism; essentially it's just a restatement of syndicalism. Such
nonsense should be rejected whole heartily. It again represents an
attempt to distance the right from their support of Hitler in the
1930s and ignores that the basis of the German economy under Hitler
was a capitalist system where the means of production remained in
private hands.
Only nominally, the decisions were made by government.

Now I don't want to read any further because I asked for you to
demonstrate that
libertarianism and fascism were identical and all you've given us is
that sometimes
fascist privatise. Fuck off loser. You're wrong and you know you're
wrong.

Ok now this is interesting.
1. Totalitarian
Opposite of libertarianism.
2. Extreme nationalism
Not a feature of libertarianism.
3. Top down revolution or movement
Not a feature of libertarianism.
4. Destructive divisionism such as racism and class warfare
Still not a feature of libertarianism.
5. Extreme anti-communism, anti socialism, and anti-liberal views
Well anyone sensible has extreme anti-communist and anti-socialist
views so it's hardly an indicator. In the meaning this writer uses
"liberal"
it means "socialist.".
6. Extreme exploitation
Libertarianism doesn't allow coercive exploitation and fascism
doesn't
allow "extreme" consensual exploitation, so while superficially
similar, nope
still not a similarity.
7. Opportunistic ideology lacking in consistency as a means to grab
power
The opposite of libertarianism.
8. Unbridled Corporatism
No idea what this means since the word "corporatism" doesn't mean
what the author tries to imply it means. In any case corporations are
very bridled under fascism and not so under libertarianism other than
the standard rules that apply to all organization (don't fight or
steal).
9. Reactionary
Libertarianism is neither reactionary nor progressive.
10. The use of violence and terror to attain and maintain power
Opposite of libertarianism.
11. Cult-like figurehead
Nope.
12. The expounding of mysticism or religious beliefs
Not a feature of libertarianism.
So they're not identical even taking your own list. So stop lying
shithead.
Nickname unavailable
2011-07-25 03:52:30 UTC
Permalink
On Jul 24, 9:26 pm, Michael Price <***@yahoo.com> wrote:


so then you do not agree with these statements correct?

"We must take from state authority those functions for which it is
incompetent and which it performs badly... I believe the state should
renounce its economic functions, especially those carried out through
monopolies, because the state is incompetent in such matters... We
must put an end to state railways, state postal service and state
insurance."
"hasten the privatization of municipal enterprises."
"We have broken with the practice of persecuting capital."

then you do not agree with privatization either correct?

then you do believe that the wealthy should pay their fair share in a
progressive income tax correct?

then you do not believe that business should be regulation free
correct?

then you also believe in fair and free elections correct?
Michael Price
2011-07-26 00:13:59 UTC
Permalink
 so then you do not agree with these statements correct?
"We must take from state authority those functions for which it is
incompetent and which it performs badly... I believe the state should
renounce its economic functions, especially those carried out through
monopolies, because the state is incompetent in such matters... We
must put an end to state railways, state postal service and state
insurance."
"hasten the privatization of municipal enterprises."
 "We have broken with the practice of persecuting capital."
I agree with them. They are not however really part of fascist
ideology,
they are simply things some fascists did for political support. The
fascists
persecuted capital quite a bit.
 then you do not agree with privatization either correct?
I agree with privatization, but again that is not a defined part of
fascist policy, it's simply a policy some fascists did sometimes.
 then you do believe that the wealthy should pay their fair share in a
progressive income tax correct?
No I don't believe anyone should pay any taxes. Yet another
difference
between fascists and libertarians.
 then you do not believe that business should be regulation free
correct?
Fascists never believed that and certainly never put it into
practice.
 then you also believe in fair and free elections correct?
No I don't believe in any elections, I'm an anarchist. Minarchists
tend to believe
in fair and free elections, but they're only part of libertarianism.
So far you've claimed that fascism and libertarianism are
"identical" (your word)
and yet the only similarities are that some fascists privatise and
fascists sometimes
claim to be against regulation. In fact though regulation of business
under all fascist
regimes was intense.
Sorry liar but one thing that fascists sometimes do and one thing
they claim to do
but generally don't doesn't make them "identical" to libertarianism.
You know this
which is why you don't address things like tariffs, currency controls,
gay rights, etc.
when you're talking about fascism and libertarianism being
"identical". You know that
to discuss them would be to admit you're lying.
Nickname unavailable
2011-07-26 01:15:15 UTC
Permalink
 so then you do not agree with these statements correct?
"We must take from state authority those functions for which it is
incompetent and which it performs badly... I believe the state should
renounce its economic functions, especially those carried out through
monopolies, because the state is incompetent in such matters... We
must put an end to state railways, state postal service and state
insurance."
"hasten the privatization of municipal enterprises."
 "We have broken with the practice of persecuting capital."
  I agree with them.  They are not however really part of fascist
ideology,
they are simply things some fascists did for political support.  The
fascists
persecuted capital quite a bit.
then you have just come out of the closet. capital flourished under
fascism.
 then you do not agree with privatization either correct?
  I agree with privatization, but again that is not a defined part of
fascist policy, it's simply a policy some fascists did sometimes.
it was a cornerstone of fascist ideology.
 then you do believe that the wealthy should pay their fair share in a
progressive income tax correct?
  No I don't believe anyone should pay any taxes.  Yet another
difference
between fascists and libertarians.
and the fascists let capital pretty much off the hook.
 then you do not believe that business should be regulation free
correct?
  Fascists never believed that and certainly never put it into
practice.
really.

We must take from state authority those functions for which it is
incompetent and which it performs badly... I believe the state should
renounce its economic functions.
 then you also believe in fair and free elections correct?
  No I don't believe in any elections, I'm an anarchist.  Minarchists
tend to believe
in fair and free elections, but they're only part of libertarianism.
  So far you've claimed that fascism and libertarianism are
"identical" (your word)
and yet the only similarities are that some fascists privatise and
fascists sometimes
claim to be against regulation.  In fact though regulation of business
under all fascist
regimes was intense.
  Sorry liar but one thing that fascists sometimes do and one thing
they claim to do
but generally don't doesn't make them "identical" to libertarianism.
You know this
which is why you don't address things like tariffs, currency controls,
gay rights, etc.
when you're talking about fascism and libertarianism being
"identical". You know that
to discuss them would be to admit you're lying.
you just agreed to everything that makes fascism what it is.
congrats. you just came out of the closet. you can try to call
yourself, anything you want. as another poster has said,
libertarianism is just fresh paint on fascism.
Michael Price
2011-07-26 03:27:07 UTC
Permalink
 so then you do not agree with these statements correct?
"We must take from state authority those functions for which it is
incompetent and which it performs badly... I believe the state should
renounce its economic functions, especially those carried out through
monopolies, because the state is incompetent in such matters... We
must put an end to state railways, state postal service and state
insurance."
"hasten the privatization of municipal enterprises."
 "We have broken with the practice of persecuting capital."
  I agree with them.  They are not however really part of fascist
ideology, they are simply things some fascists did for political support.  The
fascists persecuted capital quite a bit.
 then you have just come out of the closet.
Why because I disagree with you as to the effects of fascist
policies? Bullshit liar.
capital flourished under
fascism.
Actually capital was made to lend huge amounts of money to the
government (which
would not be effectively repaid).
 then you do not agree with privatization either correct?
  I agree with privatization, but again that is not a defined part of
fascist policy, it's simply a policy some fascists did sometimes.
 it was a cornerstone of fascist ideology.
No it's not, in fact fascist states generally have huge areas of the
economy
under the government. In any case by that standard you're a Stalinist
since
Stalinists have as a "cornerstone" of their ideology public education.
 then you do believe that the wealthy should pay their fair share in a
progressive income tax correct?
  No I don't believe anyone should pay any taxes.  Yet another
difference between fascists and libertarians.
 and the fascists let capital pretty much off the hook.
No liar they didn't. Capital had to do what it was told and was
forced to make
massive unrepayable loans to the government. In any case as I said
nobody
should have to pay taxes, are you stupid enough to think that's
similar to the
fascist creed?
 then you do not believe that business should be regulation free
correct?
  Fascists never believed that and certainly never put it into
practice.
 really.
Really.
We must take from state authority those functions for which it is
incompetent and which it performs badly... I believe the state should
renounce its economic functions.
Yeah and what did they actually DO liar? They regulated massively
and
you know it. But you prefer to quote dishonest propaganda rather than
consult the facts.
 then you also believe in fair and free elections correct?
  No I don't believe in any elections, I'm an anarchist.  Minarchists
tend to believe
in fair and free elections, but they're only part of libertarianism.
  So far you've claimed that fascism and libertarianism are
"identical" (your word)
and yet the only similarities are that some fascists privatise and
fascists sometimes
claim to be against regulation.  In fact though regulation of business
under all fascist
regimes was intense.
  Sorry liar but one thing that fascists sometimes do and one thing
they claim to do
but generally don't doesn't make them "identical" to libertarianism.
You know this
which is why you don't address things like tariffs, currency controls,
gay rights, etc.
when you're talking about fascism and libertarianism being
"identical". You know that
to discuss them would be to admit you're lying.
 you just agreed to everything that makes fascism what it is.
No liar I didn't. I agreed to some things that some fascists do
sometimes
and other things they claim to do but don't. I also directly opposed
other
things all fascists do all the time, specifically tax. I know you
know this
because as usual you tried to limit the subject to things that
libertarians
might have in common with fascists rather than the much longer list
of things that you have in common with them. For instance you and
fascists
both believe in free public education, free public health care, a
standing army,
taxes, publically paid for propaganda, etc.
congrats. you just came out of the closet.
Hey fucktard, no fucking taxes equals not a fucking facists moron.
Hell I don't even support a standing army. Really who the fuck do
you
think you're convincing? Or are you genuinely too stupid to know what
fascists are and do?
you can try to call
yourself, anything you want. as another poster has said,
libertarianism is just fresh paint on fascism.
Nickname unavailable
2011-07-26 04:33:12 UTC
Permalink
 so then you do not agree with these statements correct?
"We must take from state authority those functions for which it is
incompetent and which it performs badly... I believe the state should
renounce its economic functions, especially those carried out through
monopolies, because the state is incompetent in such matters... We
must put an end to state railways, state postal service and state
insurance."
"hasten the privatization of municipal enterprises."
 "We have broken with the practice of persecuting capital."
  I agree with them.  They are not however really part of fascist
ideology, they are simply things some fascists did for political support.  The
fascists persecuted capital quite a bit.
 then you have just come out of the closet.
  Why because I disagree with you as to the effects of fascist
policies?  Bullshit liar.
capital flourished under
fascism.
  Actually capital was made to lend huge amounts of money to the
government (which
would not be effectively repaid).
 then you do not agree with privatization either correct?
  I agree with privatization, but again that is not a defined part of
fascist policy, it's simply a policy some fascists did sometimes.
 it was a cornerstone of fascist ideology.
  No it's not, in fact fascist states generally have huge areas of the
economy
under the government.  In any case by that standard you're a Stalinist
since
Stalinists have as a "cornerstone" of their ideology public education.
 then you do believe that the wealthy should pay their fair share in a
progressive income tax correct?
  No I don't believe anyone should pay any taxes.  Yet another
difference between fascists and libertarians.
 and the fascists let capital pretty much off the hook.
  No  liar they didn't.  Capital had to do what it was told and was
forced to make
massive unrepayable loans to the government.  In any case as I said
nobody
should have to pay taxes, are you stupid enough to think that's
similar to the
fascist creed?
 then you do not believe that business should be regulation free
correct?
  Fascists never believed that and certainly never put it into
practice.
 really.
  Really.
We must take from state authority those functions for which it is
incompetent and which it performs badly... I believe the state should
renounce its economic functions.
  Yeah and what did they actually DO liar?  They regulated massively
and
you know it.  But you prefer to quote dishonest propaganda rather than
consult the facts.
 then you also believe in fair and free elections correct?
  No I don't believe in any elections, I'm an anarchist.  Minarchists
tend to believe
in fair and free elections, but they're only part of libertarianism.
  So far you've claimed that fascism and libertarianism are
"identical" (your word)
and yet the only similarities are that some fascists privatise and
fascists sometimes
claim to be against regulation.  In fact though regulation of business
under all fascist
regimes was intense.
  Sorry liar but one thing that fascists sometimes do and one thing
they claim to do
but generally don't doesn't make them "identical" to libertarianism.
You know this
which is why you don't address things like tariffs, currency controls,
gay rights, etc.
when you're talking about fascism and libertarianism being
"identical". You know that
to discuss them would be to admit you're lying.
 you just agreed to everything that makes fascism what it is.
  No liar I didn't.  I agreed to some things that some fascists do
sometimes
and other things they claim to do but don't.  I also directly opposed
other
things all fascists do all the time, specifically  tax.  I know you
know this
because as usual you tried to limit the subject to things that
libertarians
might have in common with fascists rather than the much longer list
of things that you have in common with them.  For instance you and
fascists
both believe in free public education, free public health care, a
standing army,
taxes, publically paid for propaganda, etc.
congrats. you just came out of the closet.
  Hey fucktard, no fucking taxes equals not a fucking facists moron.
Hell  I don't even support a standing army.  Really who the fuck do
you
think you're convincing?  Or are you genuinely too stupid to know what
fascists are and do?
you can try to call
yourself, anything you want. as another poster has said,
libertarianism is just fresh paint on fascism.
ok, so far you have agreed much with fascism, and you have done it in
public, here it is,
 so then you do not agree with these statements correct?
"We must take from state authority those functions for which it is 
> incompetent and which it performs badly... I believe the state should 
> renounce its economic functions, especially those carried out through 
> monopolies, because the state is incompetent in such matters... We 
> must put an end to state railways, state postal service and state 
> insurance." 
> "hasten the privatization of municipal enterprises." 
>  "We have broken with the practice of persecuting capital."
  I agree with them.  They are not however really part of fascist
ideology,
they are simply things some fascists did for political support.  The
fascists
persecuted capital quite a bit.
 then you do not agree with privatization either correct?
  I agree with privatization, but again that is not a defined part of
fascist policy, it's simply a policy some fascists did sometimes.
 then you do believe that the wealthy should pay their fair share in a
progressive income tax correct?
  No I don't believe anyone should pay any taxes.  Yet another
difference
between fascists and libertarians.
 then you do not believe that business should be regulation free
correct?
  Fascists never believed that and certainly never put it into
practice.
 then you also believe in fair and free elections correct?
  No I don't believe in any elections, I'm an anarchist.  Minarchists
tend to believe
in fair and free elections, but they're only part of libertarianism.
  So far you've claimed that fascism and libertarianism are
"identical" (your word)
and yet the only similarities are that some fascists privatise and
fascists sometimes
claim to be against regulation.  In fact though regulation of
business
under all fascist
regimes was intense.
  Sorry liar but one thing that fascists sometimes do and one thing
they claim to do
but generally don't doesn't make them "identical" to libertarianism.
You know this
which is why you don't address things like tariffs, currency
controls,
gay rights, etc.
when you're talking about fascism and libertarianism being
"identical". You know that
to discuss them would be to admit you're lying.

now are you for allowing labor unions?

are you for environmental regulations?


are you for labor laws?

are you for the rights of corporations, over its workers?

are you for the rights of corporations over governments?

are you for the rights of citizens over corporations.
Michael Price
2011-07-26 13:47:23 UTC
Permalink
 so then you do not agree with these statements correct?
"We must take from state authority those functions for which it is
incompetent and which it performs badly... I believe the state should
renounce its economic functions, especially those carried out through
monopolies, because the state is incompetent in such matters... We
must put an end to state railways, state postal service and state
insurance."
"hasten the privatization of municipal enterprises."
 "We have broken with the practice of persecuting capital."
  I agree with them.  They are not however really part of fascist
ideology, they are simply things some fascists did for political support.  The
fascists persecuted capital quite a bit.
 then you have just come out of the closet.
  Why because I disagree with you as to the effects of fascist
policies?  Bullshit liar.
capital flourished under
fascism.
  Actually capital was made to lend huge amounts of money to the
government (which
would not be effectively repaid).
 then you do not agree with privatization either correct?
  I agree with privatization, but again that is not a defined part of
fascist policy, it's simply a policy some fascists did sometimes.
 it was a cornerstone of fascist ideology.
  No it's not, in fact fascist states generally have huge areas of the
economy
under the government.  In any case by that standard you're a Stalinist
since
Stalinists have as a "cornerstone" of their ideology public education.
 then you do believe that the wealthy should pay their fair share in a
progressive income tax correct?
  No I don't believe anyone should pay any taxes.  Yet another
difference between fascists and libertarians.
 and the fascists let capital pretty much off the hook.
  No  liar they didn't.  Capital had to do what it was told and was
forced to make
massive unrepayable loans to the government.  In any case as I said
nobody
should have to pay taxes, are you stupid enough to think that's
similar to the
fascist creed?
 then you do not believe that business should be regulation free
correct?
  Fascists never believed that and certainly never put it into
practice.
 really.
  Really.
We must take from state authority those functions for which it is
incompetent and which it performs badly... I believe the state should
renounce its economic functions.
  Yeah and what did they actually DO liar?  They regulated massively
and
you know it.  But you prefer to quote dishonest propaganda rather than
consult the facts.
 then you also believe in fair and free elections correct?
  No I don't believe in any elections, I'm an anarchist.  Minarchists
tend to believe
in fair and free elections, but they're only part of libertarianism.
  So far you've claimed that fascism and libertarianism are
"identical" (your word)
and yet the only similarities are that some fascists privatise and
fascists sometimes
claim to be against regulation.  In fact though regulation of business
under all fascist
regimes was intense.
  Sorry liar but one thing that fascists sometimes do and one thing
they claim to do
but generally don't doesn't make them "identical" to libertarianism.
You know this
which is why you don't address things like tariffs, currency controls,
gay rights, etc.
when you're talking about fascism and libertarianism being
"identical". You know that
to discuss them would be to admit you're lying.
 you just agreed to everything that makes fascism what it is.
  No liar I didn't.  I agreed to some things that some fascists do
sometimes
and other things they claim to do but don't.  I also directly opposed
other
things all fascists do all the time, specifically  tax.  I know you
know this
because as usual you tried to limit the subject to things that
libertarians
might have in common with fascists rather than the much longer list
of things that you have in common with them.  For instance you and
fascists
both believe in free public education, free public health care, a
standing army,
taxes, publically paid for propaganda, etc.
congrats. you just came out of the closet.
  Hey fucktard, no fucking taxes equals not a fucking facists moron.
Hell  I don't even support a standing army.  Really who the fuck do
you
think you're convincing?  Or are you genuinely too stupid to know what
fascists are and do?
you can try to call
yourself, anything you want. as another poster has said,
libertarianism is just fresh paint on fascism.
 ok, so far you have agreed much with fascism, and you have done it in
public, here it is,
So far I have agreed with privatisation, which as discussed before
is what
SOME fascists do SOME of the time. I do not agree with "much" of
fascism in fact I agree with less of it than you do. Count up how
much
you agree with fascism on 1) government funding of primary, secondardy
and tertiary education, 2) Government paying for most of the health
care, 3) government handling negotiations between employers and
employees,
4) medical licensing. Now maybe you don't agree with the fascists on
all of
these but I bet you do, and that's ALREADY more than I agree with them
on.
 so then you do not agree with these statements correct?
"We must take from state authority those functions for which it is 
> incompetent and which it performs badly... I believe the state should 
> renounce its economic functions, especially those carried out through 
> monopolies, because the state is incompetent in such matters... We 
> must put an end to state railways, state postal service and state 
> insurance." 
> "hasten the privatization of municipal enterprises." 
>  "We have broken with the practice of persecuting capital."
  I agree with them.  They are not however really part of fascist
ideology,
they are simply things some fascists did for political support.  The
fascists
persecuted capital quite a bit.
 then you do not agree with privatization either correct?
  I agree with privatization, but again that is not a defined part of
fascist policy, it's simply a policy some fascists did sometimes.
 then you do believe that the wealthy should pay their fair share in a
progressive income tax correct?
  No I don't believe anyone should pay any taxes.  Yet another
difference
between fascists and libertarians.
 then you do not believe that business should be regulation free
correct?
  Fascists never believed that and certainly never put it into
practice.
 then you also believe in fair and free elections correct?
  No I don't believe in any elections, I'm an anarchist.  Minarchists
tend to believe
in fair and free elections, but they're only part of libertarianism.
  So far you've claimed that fascism and libertarianism are
"identical" (your word)
and yet the only similarities are that some fascists privatise and
fascists sometimes
claim to be against regulation.  In fact though regulation of
business
under all fascist
regimes was intense.
  Sorry liar but one thing that fascists sometimes do and one thing
they claim to do
but generally don't doesn't make them "identical" to libertarianism.
You know this
which is why you don't address things like tariffs, currency
controls,
gay rights, etc.
when you're talking about fascism and libertarianism being
"identical". You know that
to discuss them would be to admit you're lying.
 now are you for allowing labor unions?
When did I say that I was against allowing labour unions retard?
 are you for environmental regulations?
Are you? Because that's something you'd have in common with
fascists.
 are you for labor laws?
Nope, other than the usual law that you're not allowed to defraud
your
employer or employees.
 are you for the rights of corporations, over its workers?
What does that even mean? I am for the rights of all individuals,
whether practised individual or collectively via groups like
corporations or
unions (note limited liability is not such a right). You're so
fucking ignorant
of my position you don't even know what you're criticising.
are you for the rights of corporations over governments?
I am for the rights of anyone over governments because the rights
of
govenrments do not exist. In any case when did fascists champion the
rights of corporations over govenrment? Seriously you have no idea
what
fascism is. Fascism by definition holds the rights of the government
supreme.
are you for the rights of citizens over corporations.
Again, what does this mean? I am for the rights of all people,
citizens
and noncitizens (the distinction being purely arbitrary) whether
individually
or collectively exercised. This is how fucking ignorant you are, you
don't
even know the libertarian position and still you claim you know all
about it.
You are far closer to fascism than I ever was. Suck it bitch.
Nickname unavailable
2011-07-26 17:20:43 UTC
Permalink
 so then you do not agree with these statements correct?
"We must take from state authority those functions for which it is
incompetent and which it performs badly... I believe the state should
renounce its economic functions, especially those carried out through
monopolies, because the state is incompetent in such matters... We
must put an end to state railways, state postal service and state
insurance."
"hasten the privatization of municipal enterprises."
 "We have broken with the practice of persecuting capital."
  I agree with them.  They are not however really part of fascist
ideology, they are simply things some fascists did for political support.  The
fascists persecuted capital quite a bit.
 then you have just come out of the closet.
  Why because I disagree with you as to the effects of fascist
policies?  Bullshit liar.
capital flourished under
fascism.
  Actually capital was made to lend huge amounts of money to the
government (which
would not be effectively repaid).
 then you do not agree with privatization either correct?
  I agree with privatization, but again that is not a defined part of
fascist policy, it's simply a policy some fascists did sometimes.
 it was a cornerstone of fascist ideology.
  No it's not, in fact fascist states generally have huge areas of the
economy
under the government.  In any case by that standard you're a Stalinist
since
Stalinists have as a "cornerstone" of their ideology public education.
 then you do believe that the wealthy should pay their fair share in a
progressive income tax correct?
  No I don't believe anyone should pay any taxes.  Yet another
difference between fascists and libertarians.
 and the fascists let capital pretty much off the hook.
  No  liar they didn't.  Capital had to do what it was told and was
forced to make
massive unrepayable loans to the government.  In any case as I said
nobody
should have to pay taxes, are you stupid enough to think that's
similar to the
fascist creed?
 then you do not believe that business should be regulation free
correct?
  Fascists never believed that and certainly never put it into
practice.
 really.
  Really.
We must take from state authority those functions for which it is
incompetent and which it performs badly... I believe the state should
renounce its economic functions.
  Yeah and what did they actually DO liar?  They regulated massively
and
you know it.  But you prefer to quote dishonest propaganda rather than
consult the facts.
 then you also believe in fair and free elections correct?
  No I don't believe in any elections, I'm an anarchist.  Minarchists
tend to believe
in fair and free elections, but they're only part of libertarianism.
  So far you've claimed that fascism and libertarianism are
"identical" (your word)
and yet the only similarities are that some fascists privatise and
fascists sometimes
claim to be against regulation.  In fact though regulation of business
under all fascist
regimes was intense.
  Sorry liar but one thing that fascists sometimes do and one thing
they claim to do
but generally don't doesn't make them "identical" to libertarianism.
You know this
which is why you don't address things like tariffs, currency controls,
gay rights, etc.
when you're talking about fascism and libertarianism being
"identical". You know that
to discuss them would be to admit you're lying.
 you just agreed to everything that makes fascism what it is.
  No liar I didn't.  I agreed to some things that some fascists do
sometimes
and other things they claim to do but don't.  I also directly opposed
other
things all fascists do all the time, specifically  tax.  I know you
know this
because as usual you tried to limit the subject to things that
libertarians
might have in common with fascists rather than the much longer list
of things that you have in common with them.  For instance you and
fascists
both believe in free public education, free public health care, a
standing army,
taxes, publically paid for propaganda, etc.
congrats. you just came out of the closet.
  Hey fucktard, no fucking taxes equals not a fucking facists moron.
Hell  I don't even support a standing army.  Really who the fuck do
you
think you're convincing?  Or are you genuinely too stupid to know what
fascists are and do?
you can try to call
yourself, anything you want. as another poster has said,
libertarianism is just fresh paint on fascism.
 ok, so far you have agreed much with fascism, and you have done it in
public, here it is,
  So far I have agreed with privatisation, which as discussed before
is what
SOME fascists do SOME of the time.
privatization was a cornerstone of fascist economic policy, and the
minute they assumed power, they instituted privatization. something
you agree with, i do not.


 I do not agree with "much" of
fascism in fact I agree with less of it than you do.  Count up how
much
you agree with fascism on 1) government funding of primary, secondardy
and tertiary education, 2) Government paying for most of the health
care, 3) government handling negotiations between employers and
employees,
4) medical licensing.  Now maybe you don't agree with the fascists on
all of
these but I bet you do, and that's ALREADY more than I agree with them
on.
none of that is fascism.
 so then you do not agree with these statements correct?
"We must take from state authority those functions for which it is 
> incompetent and which it performs badly... I believe the state should 
> renounce its economic functions, especially those carried out through 
> monopolies, because the state is incompetent in such matters... We 
> must put an end to state railways, state postal service and state 
> insurance." 
> "hasten the privatization of municipal enterprises." 
>  "We have broken with the practice of persecuting capital."
  I agree with them.  They are not however really part of fascist
ideology,
they are simply things some fascists did for political support.  The
fascists
persecuted capital quite a bit.
that is a lie. once in power, they instituted said policies
immediately.
 then you do not agree with privatization either correct?
  I agree with privatization, but again that is not a defined part of
fascist policy, it's simply a policy some fascists did sometimes.
that is a lie also. once in power, they instituted said polices
immediately.
 then you do believe that the wealthy should pay their fair share in a
progressive income tax correct?
  No I don't believe anyone should pay any taxes.  Yet another
difference
between fascists and libertarians.
fascism is not monolithic. but under fascism, taxes went down
severely for the wealthy and powerful.
 then you do not believe that business should be regulation free
correct?
  Fascists never believed that and certainly never put it into
practice.
sure they did.

"We must take from state authority those functions for which it is
incompetent and which it performs badly... I believe the state should
renounce its economic functions"

you must believe then that the state has no right to interfere in
economic functions correct?
 then you also believe in fair and free elections correct?
  No I don't believe in any elections, I'm an anarchist.  Minarchists
tend to believe
in fair and free elections, but they're only part of libertarianism.
  So far you've claimed that fascism and libertarianism are
"identical" (your word)
and yet the only similarities are that some fascists privatise and
fascists sometimes
claim to be against regulation.  In fact though regulation of business
under all fascist
regimes was intense.
  Sorry liar but one thing that fascists sometimes do and one thing
they claim to do
but generally don't doesn't make them "identical" to libertarianism.
You know this
which is why you don't address things like tariffs, currency
controls,
gay rights, etc.
when you're talking about fascism and libertarianism being
"identical". You know that
to discuss them would be to admit you're lying.
 now are you for allowing labor unions?
  When did I say that I was against allowing labour unions retard?
i am asking a questions. are you for the rights of labor unions, to
have some control over corporations?
 are you for environmental regulations?
  Are you?  Because that's something you'd have in common with
fascists.
when you dodge a question like that, it casts a shadow over you, one
can then extrapolate, that you are against environmental laws correct?
 are you for labor laws?
  Nope, other than the usual law that you're not allowed to defraud
your
employer or employees.
then you are for forced labor, and child labor, they were all
hallmarks of fascist ideology. without labor laws, you have communist
china:)))))
 are you for the rights of corporations, over its workers?
  What does that even mean?  I am for the rights of all individuals,
whether practised individual or collectively via groups like
corporations or
unions (note limited liability is not such a right).  You're so
fucking ignorant
of my position you don't even know what you're criticising.
i am merely asking you questions. without labor laws, corporations
institute forced labor, and child labor. so are you for the rights of
citizens, to have a say over how corporations operate?
are you for the rights of corporations over governments?
  I am for the rights of anyone over governments because the rights
of
govenrments do not exist.  In any case when did fascists champion the
rights of corporations over govenrment?  Seriously you have no idea
what
fascism is.  Fascism by definition holds the rights of the government
supreme.
http://www.brainyquote.com/quotes/authors/b/benito_mussolini.html

Fascism should more appropriately be called Corporatism because it is
a merger of state and corporate power.
Benito Mussolini

Fascism should rightly be called Corporatism, as it is the merger of
corporate and government power.
Benito Mussolini
are you for the rights of citizens over corporations.
  Again, what does this mean?  I am for the rights of all people,
citizens
and noncitizens (the distinction being purely arbitrary) whether
individually
or collectively exercised.  This is how fucking ignorant you are, you
don't
even know the libertarian position and still you claim you know all
about it.
  You are far closer to fascism than I ever was.  Suck it bitch.
but you evaded the question, are you for the rights of citizens over
corporations. what that means is, do citizens have the right to
exercise control over corporations?



so far i have not agreed with one position of fascism, yet you have
either agreed with them all, or simply evaded answering the question,
which casts a shadow of a doubt of your true beliefs.


are you pro free market?


are you anti-marxist?


are you anti-big government?
Michael Price
2011-07-27 02:25:28 UTC
Permalink
 ok, so far you have agreed much with fascism, and you have done it in
public, here it is,
  So far I have agreed with privatisation, which as discussed before
is what
SOME fascists do SOME of the time.
 privatization was a cornerstone of fascist economic policy, and the
minute they assumed power, they instituted privatization. something
you agree with, i do not.
No privatisation is not the "cornerstone" of fascist policy massive
government spending is.
That you're utterly ignorant of this doesn't suprise me. Nor does it
suprise me that you
simply asserted something without any effort to prove or even define
it.
  I do not agree with "much" of
fascism in fact I agree with less of it than you do.  Count up how
much
you agree with fascism on 1) government funding of primary, secondardy
and tertiary education, 2) Government paying for most of the health
care, 3) government handling negotiations between employers and
employees,
4) medical licensing.  Now maybe you don't agree with the fascists on
all of
these but I bet you do, and that's ALREADY more than I agree with them
on.
 none of that is fascism.
All of it is fascist policies that you agree with and I don't. So
far you're in
far closer agreement to fascists than I am.
 so then you do not agree with these statements correct?
"We must take from state authority those functions for which it is
incompetent and which it performs badly... I believe the state should 
> renounce its economic functions, especially those carried out through 
> monopolies, because the state is incompetent in such matters... We 
> must put an end to state railways, state postal service and state 
> insurance." 
> "hasten the privatization of municipal enterprises." 
>  "We have broken with the practice of persecuting capital."
  I agree with them.  They are not however really part of fascist
ideology,
they are simply things some fascists did for political support.  The
fascists
persecuted capital quite a bit.
 that is a lie. once in power, they instituted said policies
immediately.
What policies? Are you seriously claimign that there wasn't a state
railway under fascism? Or a state
mail service? The state under fascism does a hell of a lot for which
it is incompetent, including controlling
the majority of the economy.
 then you do not agree with privatization either correct?
  I agree with privatization, but again that is not a defined part of
fascist policy, it's simply a policy some fascists did sometimes.
 that is a lie also. once in power, they instituted said polices
immediately.
By "immediately" you presumably mean "after 2 years of the economy
going to hell when
they had no choice". At least that's what happened in Chile.
 then you do believe that the wealthy should pay their fair share in a
progressive income tax correct?
  No I don't believe anyone should pay any taxes.  Yet another
difference
between fascists and libertarians.
 fascism is not monolithic.
But all fascists believe people should pay taxes shithead. I don't
therefore
I AM NOT A FASCIST. Fascists believe in increasing state power, I
believe in
eliminating it.
but under fascism, taxes went down
severely for the wealthy and powerful.
But they still existed and would continue to exist until the fascist
regime was overthrown,
therefore I am not a fascist.
 then you do not believe that business should be regulation free
correct?
  Fascists never believed that and certainly never put it into
practice.
 sure they did.
"We must take from state authority those functions for which it is
incompetent and which it performs badly... I believe the state should
renounce its economic functions"
Hey shithead, party political statements are not proof, or even
good evidence.
 you must believe then that the state has no right to interfere in
economic functions correct?
Yep, and that seperates me from the fascists. The fascists had
whole ministries devoted to interfering int he economic functions
of every person, corporation, union, and gold club in their country.
That you are ignorant of this would astound me if I didn't already
know you think NORTH KOREA is a free market economy.
 then you also believe in fair and free elections correct?
  No I don't believe in any elections, I'm an anarchist.  Minarchists
tend to believe
in fair and free elections, but they're only part of libertarianism.
  So far you've claimed that fascism and libertarianism are
"identical" (your word)
and yet the only similarities are that some fascists privatise and
fascists sometimes
claim to be against regulation.  In fact though regulation of business
under all fascist
regimes was intense.
  Sorry liar but one thing that fascists sometimes do and one thing
they claim to do
but generally don't doesn't make them "identical" to libertarianism.
You know this
which is why you don't address things like tariffs, currency controls,
gay rights, etc.
when you're talking about fascism and libertarianism being
"identical". You know that
to discuss them would be to admit you're lying.
 now are you for allowing labor unions?
  When did I say that I was against allowing labour unions retard?
 i am asking a questions. are you for the rights of labor unions, to
have some control over corporations?
If you say "are you now" that implies I was ever against it.
Support
that implication or withdraw it.
I note that you're now asking a totally different question because
you
know you can't support your previous implication.
 are you for environmental regulations?
  Are you?  Because that's something you'd have in common with
fascists.
 when you dodge a question like that, it casts a shadow over you, one
can then extrapolate, that you are against environmental laws correct?
If you really did extrapolate that then you would have to know I am
not
a fascist since they are in favor of environment laws.
 are you for labor laws?
  Nope, other than the usual law that you're not allowed to defraud
your employer or employees.
  then you are for forced labor,
I don't consider "You're not allowed to initiate force" to be a
"labor law",
which means I don't consider banning forced labor to be a labor law.
So
great by your definition I am for "labor laws". Great another thing
we
BOTH have in common with the fascists. But nice try claiming I'm
in favor of forced labor because of some definition chopping you
scumbag.
and child labor,
I am for allowing the government to control what consensual trades
of labor
for money, goods and/or services happen between children and adults if
that's
what you mean. Note yet again you're on the facists side of the
argument.

?> they were all
hallmarks of fascist ideology. without labor laws, you have communist
china:)))))
Communist China has a hell of a lot of labor laws as you just
defined them.
 are you for the rights of corporations, over its workers?
  What does that even mean?  I am for the rights of all individuals,
whether practised individual or collectively via groups like
corporations or
unions (note limited liability is not such a right).  You're so
fucking ignorant
of my position you don't even know what you're criticising.
 i am merely asking you questions.
You are asking questions that don't mean anything.
without labor laws, corporations
institute forced labor,
When did this happen? What situation without "labor laws"
defined in the usual way resulted in corporations instituting forced
labor? In fact the places where corporations instituted forced labor
had lots of labor laws, especially the fascist ones.

BTW earn to read moron. "I am for the rights of all individuals,
whether practised individual or collectively" This obviously
includes the right not to be forced to work.
and child labor. so are you for the rights of
citizens, to have a say over how corporations operate?
If by that you mean should the citizens be allowed to forbid them
for using force or fraud then yes of course, it's a fundamental
libertarian principle that nobody should be allowed to use force
or fraud. That you are ignorant of that and yet claim to know what
libertarianism is simply shows what a stupid scumbag you are.
Of course that might not be what the question means. So clarify,
what does it mean? Who are "the cititzens" and what does it mean
for them to "have a say"? Do you mean "the government" "has a say"?
And by "have a say" do you mean "can override any decision" without
accountability to the corporation"? Because If you do, and I suspect
you do, you're the one who's closer to the fascists.
are you for the rights of corporations over governments?
  I am for the rights of anyone over governments because the rights
of
govenrments do not exist.  In any case when did fascists champion the
rights of corporations over govenrment?  Seriously you have no idea
what
fascism is.  Fascism by definition holds the rights of the government
supreme.
http://www.brainyquote.com/quotes/authors/b/benito_mussolini.html
Fascism should more appropriately be called Corporatism because it is
a merger of state and corporate power.
Benito Mussolini
Yeah shit for brains try to pretend that means corporations have
power and
the government doesn't control them. The problem is that fascists
always
excercise complete control of the corporations.
are you for the rights of citizens over corporations.
  Again, what does this mean?  I am for the rights of all people,
citizens and noncitizens (the distinction being purely arbitrary) whether
individually or collectively exercised.  This is how fucking ignorant you are, you
don't even know the libertarian position and still you claim you know all
about it .
  You are far closer to fascism than I ever was.  Suck it bitch.
 but you evaded the question,
No I answered it completely, you lying shitbag, despite the fact
that it was too vague
to know what it meant. You have a complete description of my attitude
to corporations,
citizens, and the relationship between them. You're just too stupid
to understand it.
are you for the rights of citizens over
corporations. what that means is, do citizens have the right to
exercise control over corporations?
Again you haven't said what that actually means. Do you mean the
government should have control over corporations? Like in a fascist
system?
 so far i have not agreed with one position of fascism,
You believe in the a state do you not? That's a position of fascism
you agree with. Along with universal government paid health care,
government pensions, labor laws, tax-paid armies, and so on. Seriously
liar did you not know I would get you on that crap, fucktard?
yet you have
either agreed with them all,
So you're claiming I've agree with the fascist position on labor
laws (which
they favor and I don't), government set wage rates (which they favor
and I don't),
tariff (which they favor and I don't), large tax-paid armies (which
they favor and I don't)?
Seriously fucktard who are you trying to kid? You're nothing but a
sad pathetic liar who
thinks that if he slings enough shit and never learns anything he
won't have to admit
he's a fucking moron who likes coercing people.
or simply evaded answering the question,
Nope didn't do that once.
which casts a shadow of a doubt of your true beliefs.
 are you pro free market?
Yes, unlike the fascists.
 are you anti-marxist?
Yes, aren't you?
are you anti-big government?
Yes unlike the fascists.
Nickname unavailable
2011-07-27 05:25:27 UTC
Permalink
 ok, so far you have agreed much with fascism, and you have done it in
public, here it is,
  So far I have agreed with privatisation, which as discussed before
is what
SOME fascists do SOME of the time.
 privatization was a cornerstone of fascist economic policy, and the
minute they assumed power, they instituted privatization. something
you agree with, i do not.
  No privatisation is not the "cornerstone" of fascist policy massive
government spending is.
That you're utterly ignorant of this doesn't suprise me.  Nor does it
suprise me that you
simply asserted something without any effort to prove or even define
it.
i have supplied credible, verifiable evidence, that points out
privatization was one of the cornerstones of fascism, and that those
stated policies were immediately instituted once they gained power.
now you can back up your lie with verifiable, credible, sources and
cites, that the fascists did not have privatization high on their
agenda.
  I do not agree with "much" of
fascism in fact I agree with less of it than you do.  Count up how
much
you agree with fascism on 1) government funding of primary, secondardy
and tertiary education, 2) Government paying for most of the health
care, 3) government handling negotiations between employers and
employees,
4) medical licensing.  Now maybe you don't agree with the fascists on
all of
these but I bet you do, and that's ALREADY more than I agree with them
on.
 none of that is fascism.
  All of it is fascist policies that you agree with and I don't.  So
far you're in
far closer agreement to fascists than I am.
none of it is fascist.
 so then you do not agree with these statements correct?
"We must take from state authority those functions for which it is
incompetent and which it performs badly... I believe the state should 
> renounce its economic functions, especially those carried out through 
> monopolies, because the state is incompetent in such matters... We 
> must put an end to state railways, state postal service and state 
> insurance." 
> "hasten the privatization of municipal enterprises." 
>  "We have broken with the practice of persecuting capital."
  I agree with them.  They are not however really part of fascist
ideology,
they are simply things some fascists did for political support.  The
fascists
persecuted capital quite a bit.
 that is a lie. once in power, they instituted said policies
immediately.
  What policies?  Are you seriously claimign that there wasn't a state
railway under fascism?  Or a state
mail service?  The state under fascism does a hell of a lot for which
it is incompetent, including controlling
the majority of the economy.
this is why i consider you insane.


http://www.spiritone.com/~gdy52150/chpt1.htm

In various speeches made shortly after the March on Rome, Mussolini
stated, "We must take from state authority those functions for which
it is incompetent and which it performs badly... I believe the state
should renounce its economic functions, especially those carried out
through monopolies, because the state is incompetent in such
matters... We must put an end to state railways, state postal service
and state insurance." The state returned large monopolies to the
private sector after returning them to profitability such as the
Consortium of Match Manufactures, privatized the insurance system in
1923, the telephone system in 1925, and many of the public works.
In Germany the Nazis announced they would end nationalization of
private industries when they seized power. In 1932, Hitler returned
control of the Gelsenkirhen company to private hands and in 1936
returned the stock of "United Steel" to private hands. Throughout
1933-1936, the Nazi returned to private hands the control of several
banks: Dresdner, Danat, Commerz and Privatbank, the Deutsche Bank, and
several others. In 1936, the steamship company Deutcher Schiff and
Maschinenbau was returned to the private sector. In 1934, Dr. Schacht,
the Nazi Minister of Economy, gave instructions to hasten the
privatization of municipal enterprises. These enterprises were
especially coveted by the rich industrialists, as they had been
prosperous even during the depression.
 then you do not agree with privatization either correct?
  I agree with privatization, but again that is not a defined part of
fascist policy, it's simply a policy some fascists did sometimes.
 that is a lie also. once in power, they instituted said polices
immediately.
  By "immediately" you presumably mean "after 2 years of the economy
going to hell when
they had no choice".  At least that's what happened in Chile.
http://www.spiritone.com/~gdy52150/chpt1.htm


In various speeches made shortly after the March on Rome, Mussolini
stated, "We must take from state authority those functions for which
it is incompetent and which it performs badly... I believe the state
should renounce its economic functions, especially those carried out
through monopolies, because the state is incompetent in such
matters... We must put an end to state railways, state postal service
and state insurance." The state returned large monopolies to the
private sector after returning them to profitability such as the
Consortium of Match Manufactures, privatized the insurance system in
1923, the telephone system in 1925, and many of the public works.
In Germany the Nazis announced they would end nationalization of
private industries when they seized power. In 1932, Hitler returned
control of the Gelsenkirhen company to private hands and in 1936
returned the stock of "United Steel" to private hands. Throughout
1933-1936, the Nazi returned to private hands the control of several
banks: Dresdner, Danat, Commerz and Privatbank, the Deutsche Bank, and
several others. In 1936, the steamship company Deutcher Schiff and
Maschinenbau was returned to the private sector. In 1934, Dr. Schacht,
the Nazi Minister of Economy, gave instructions to hasten the
privatization of municipal enterprises. These enterprises were
especially coveted by the rich industrialists, as they had been
prosperous even during the depression.
 then you do believe that the wealthy should pay their fair share in a
progressive income tax correct?
  No I don't believe anyone should pay any taxes.  Yet another
difference
between fascists and libertarians.
 fascism is not monolithic.
  But all fascists believe people should pay taxes shithead.  I don't
therefore
I AM NOT A FASCIST.  Fascists believe in increasing state power, I
believe in
eliminating it.
fascism is not monolithic, and nether is libertarianism, but they
share many of the same traits, enough so that its hard to tell the two
apart.
but under fascism, taxes went down
severely for the wealthy and powerful.
  But they still existed and would continue to exist until the fascist
regime was overthrown,
therefore I am not a fascist.
fascism is not monolithic, and nether is libertarianism, but they
share many of the same traits, enough so that its hard to tell the two
apart.
 then you do not believe that business should be regulation free
correct?
  Fascists never believed that and certainly never put it into
practice.
 sure they did.
"We must take from state authority those functions for which it is
incompetent and which it performs badly... I believe the state should
renounce its economic functions"
  Hey shithead, party political statements are not proof, or even
good evidence.
proof, i have shown you repeatedly.
 you must believe then that the state has no right to interfere in
economic functions correct?
  Yep, and that seperates me from the fascists.  The fascists had
whole ministries devoted to interfering int he economic functions
of every person, corporation, union, and gold club in their country.
That you are ignorant of this would astound me if I didn't already
know you think NORTH KOREA is a free market economy.
they interfered only when a corporation wanted them to. otherwise,
the corporation ran free to do as they pleased. so you are4 a admitted
corporatists, a fascist.
 then you also believe in fair and free elections correct?
  No I don't believe in any elections, I'm an anarchist.  Minarchists
tend to believe
in fair and free elections, but they're only part of libertarianism.
  So far you've claimed that fascism and libertarianism are
"identical" (your word)
and yet the only similarities are that some fascists privatise and
fascists sometimes
claim to be against regulation.  In fact though regulation of business
under all fascist
regimes was intense.
  Sorry liar but one thing that fascists sometimes do and one thing
they claim to do
but generally don't doesn't make them "identical" to libertarianism.
You know this
which is why you don't address things like tariffs, currency controls,
gay rights, etc.
when you're talking about fascism and libertarianism being
"identical". You know that
to discuss them would be to admit you're lying.
 now are you for allowing labor unions?
  When did I say that I was against allowing labour unions retard?
 i am asking a questions. are you for the rights of labor unions, to
have some control over corporations?
  If you say "are you now" that implies I was ever against it.
Support
that implication or withdraw it.
  I note that you're now asking a totally different question because
you
know you can't support your previous implication.
nope, if free independent labor unions exist, they will have some
control over a corporations policies. do you favor free independent
labor unions, that can have the power to affect corporate policies?
 are you for environmental regulations?
  Are you?  Because that's something you'd have in common with
fascists.
 when you dodge a question like that, it casts a shadow over you, one
can then extrapolate, that you are against environmental laws correct?
  If you really did extrapolate that then you would have to know I am
not
a fascist since they are in favor of environment laws.
nice dodge. pinochet let chile become one of the worst polluted
countries in the world. libertarians fight environmental laws in
america. are you for or against them?
 are you for labor laws?
  Nope, other than the usual law that you're not allowed to defraud
your employer or employees.
  then you are for forced labor,
  I don't consider "You're not allowed to initiate force" to be a
"labor law",
which means I don't consider banning forced labor to be a labor law.
ROTFLOL!!!!!!!!!!!!! if there is no law against it, its legal. you are
for forced labor:))))))))))
So
great by your definition I am for "labor laws".  Great another thing
we
BOTH have in common with the fascists.  But nice try claiming I'm
in favor of forced labor because of some definition chopping you
scumbag.
you just agreed with no labor laws on forced labor, scumbag.
and child labor,
  I am for allowing the government to control what consensual trades
of labor
for money, goods and/or services happen between children and adults if
that's
what you mean.  Note yet again you're on the facists side of the
argument.
so you are against child labor???? fascists used forced labor, and
chile labor, which i am firmly against, and it looks like you embrace
part of that scenario.
?> they were all> hallmarks of fascist ideology. without labor laws, you have communist
china:)))))
  Communist China has a hell of a lot of labor laws as you just
defined them.
any tin horn conservative/libertarian/fascist/communist
dictatorships, have lots of propaganda devises. but are the laws
enforced, i doubt it.
 are you for the rights of corporations, over its workers?
  What does that even mean?  I am for the rights of all individuals,
whether practised individual or collectively via groups like
corporations or
unions (note limited liability is not such a right).  You're so
fucking ignorant
of my position you don't even know what you're criticising.
 i am merely asking you questions.
 You are asking questions that don't mean anything.
you mean you will not answer. do corporations have rights over their
workers?
without labor laws, corporations
institute forced labor,
  When did this happen?  What situation without "labor laws"
defined in the usual way resulted in corporations instituting forced
labor?  In fact the places where corporations instituted forced labor
had lots of labor laws, especially the fascist ones.
does not mean they are enforced. the soviet union had a constitution
that nobody paid attention to. it was a prop for the gullible.
corporations are using forced labor every day in many parts of asia.
  BTW earn to read moron. "I am for the rights of all individuals,
whether practised individual or collectively"  This obviously
includes the right not to be forced to work.
its about time. then you are for tough labor laws outlawing forced
labor correct?
and child labor. so are you for the rights of
citizens, to have a say over how corporations operate?
  If by that you mean should the citizens be allowed to forbid them
for using force or fraud then yes of course, it's a fundamental
libertarian principle that nobody should be allowed to use force
or fraud.  That you are ignorant of that and yet claim to know what
libertarianism is simply shows what a stupid scumbag you are.
libertarianism is not monolithic. in america, many libertarians favor
corporate rights, over citizen rights.
  Of course that might not be what the question means.  So clarify,
what does it mean?  Who are "the cititzens" and what does it mean
for them to "have a say"?  Do you mean "the government" "has a say"?
yes. government represents its citizens.
And by "have a say" do you mean "can override any decision" without
accountability to the corporation"?  Because If you do, and I suspect
you do, you're the one who's closer to the fascists.
fascism did not allow citizen control of corporations at all. the
only way to control corporations is thru government action, otherwise
citizens cannot control corporations on their own, its impossible.
are you for the rights of corporations over governments?
  I am for the rights of anyone over governments because the rights
of
govenrments do not exist.  In any case when did fascists champion the
rights of corporations over govenrment?  Seriously you have no idea
what
fascism is.  Fascism by definition holds the rights of the government
supreme.
http://www.brainyquote.com/quotes/authors/b/benito_mussolini.html
Fascism should more appropriately be called Corporatism because it is
a merger of state and corporate power.
Benito Mussolini
  Yeah shit for brains try to pretend that means corporations have
power and
the government doesn't control them.  The problem is that fascists
always
excercise complete control of the corporations.
yea, its why so many of them flocked to the fascists. they had carte
blanche.
are you for the rights of citizens over corporations.
  Again, what does this mean?  I am for the rights of all people,
citizens and noncitizens (the distinction being purely arbitrary) whether
individually or collectively exercised.  This is how fucking ignorant you are, you
don't even know the libertarian position and still you claim you know all
about it .
  You are far closer to fascism than I ever was.  Suck it bitch.
 but you evaded the question,
  No I answered it completely, you lying shitbag, despite the fact
that it was too vague
to know what it meant.  You have a complete description of my attitude
to corporations,
citizens, and the relationship between them.  You're just too stupid
to understand it.
nope, you have provided no means of control over corporations. it
cannot be done without government action. so your words are empty, and
perhaps a ploy. the only way citizens can control very powerful and
wealthy corporations, are thru government actions. are you for that?
are you for the rights of citizens over
corporations. what that means is, do citizens have the right to
exercise control over corporations?
  Again you haven't said what that actually means.  Do you mean the
government should have control over corporations?  Like in a fascist
system?
citizens cannot control corporations on their own, and the regulation
of corporations is not fascism.


"We must take from state authority those functions for which it is
incompetent and which it performs badly... I believe the state should
renounce its economic functions"
 so far i have not agreed with one position of fascism,
  You believe in the a state do you not?  That's a position of fascism
you agree with.  Along with universal government paid health care,
government pensions, labor laws, tax-paid armies, and so on. Seriously
liar did you not know I would get you on that crap, fucktard?
the state can be fascist, i am against that. but most states are not
fascist. but, libertarians are against government, and are for free
unfettered markets correct?
yet you have
either agreed with them all,
  So you're claiming I've agree with the fascist position on labor
laws (which
they favor and I don't), government set wage rates (which they favor
and I don't),
tariff (which they favor and I don't), large tax-paid armies (which
they favor and I don't)?
Seriously fucktard who are you trying to kid?  You're nothing but a
sad pathetic liar who
thinks that if he slings enough shit and never learns anything he
won't have to admit
he's a fucking moron who likes coercing people.
you have sided with much, although you are not monolithic, you have
just about agreed with every fascist position i have came at you with.
no labor laws outlawing forced labor, means its legal.
or simply evaded answering the question,
  Nope didn't do that once.
once you became aware that your positions, are the same as many
fascists position, you became very vague, and could not understand
things. before you became aware, you were spot on with your answers,
and they were the same positions of the fascists.
which casts a shadow of a doubt of your true beliefs.
 are you pro free market?
  Yes, unlike the fascists.
reallly, the norwegian shooter was pro free markets.
 are you anti-marxist?
  Yes, aren't you?
really, the norwegian shooter was anti-marxist. i am against all
forms of extremism.
are you anti-big government?
  Yes unlike the fascists.
the norwegian shooter was anti-big government.

you keep agreeing with these monsters, and you wonder why we view
you, as we do:)))
Michael Price
2011-07-28 00:51:22 UTC
Permalink
 ok, so far you have agreed much with fascism, and you have done it in
public, here it is,
  So far I have agreed with privatisation, which as discussed before
is what
SOME fascists do SOME of the time.
 privatization was a cornerstone of fascist economic policy, and the
minute they assumed power, they instituted privatization. something
you agree with, i do not.
  No privatisation is not the "cornerstone" of fascist policy massive
government spending is.
That you're utterly ignorant of this doesn't suprise me.  Nor does it
suprise me that you
simply asserted something without any effort to prove or even define
it.
 i have supplied credible, verifiable evidence,
No fucktard you haven't.
that points out
privatization was one of the cornerstones of fascism,
No liar, you've pointed out that some fascists do it sometimes.
and that those
stated policies were immediately instituted once they gained power.
In some cases liar.
now you can back up your lie with verifiable, credible, sources and
cites,
You claimed that privatisation was a "cornerstone" of fascist
economic
policy. Prove it. Don't just prove that it's something they
sometimes do.
that the fascists did not have privatization high on their
agenda.
You made the claim you support it. That they did it sometimes is
not proof it was "high on their agenda" indeed it doesn't prove it was
on their
agenda at all. Fascist governments generally come to power during
financial
crises when governments need to raise money. Privatisation is one way
to
raise money.
  I do not agree with "much" of
fascism in fact I agree with less of it than you do.  Count up how
much
you agree with fascism on 1) government funding of primary, secondardy
and tertiary education, 2) Government paying for most of the health
care, 3) government handling negotiations between employers and
employees,
4) medical licensing.  Now maybe you don't agree with the fascists on
all of
these but I bet you do, and that's ALREADY more than I agree with them
on.
 none of that is fascism.
  All of it is fascist policies that you agree with and I don't.  So
far you're in
far closer agreement to fascists than I am.
 none of it is fascist.
Yes fucktard it is all fascist policy that you agree with..
 so then you do not agree with these statements correct?
"We must take from state authority those functions for which it is
incompetent and which it performs badly... I believe the state should 
> renounce its economic functions, especially those carried out through 
> monopolies, because the state is incompetent in such matters... We 
> must put an end to state railways, state postal service and state 
> insurance." 
> "hasten the privatization of municipal enterprises." 
>  "We have broken with the practice of persecuting capital."
  I agree with them.  They are not however really part of fascist
ideology,
they are simply things some fascists did for political support.  The
fascists
persecuted capital quite a bit.
 that is a lie. once in power, they instituted said policies
immediately.
  What policies?  Are you seriously claimign that there wasn't a state
railway under fascism?  Or a state
mail service?  The state under fascism does a hell of a lot for which
it is incompetent, including controlling
the majority of the economy.
 this is why i consider you insane.
So you consider me insane because you disagree with me and you can't
refute me.
http://www.spiritone.com/~gdy52150/chpt1.htm
In various speeches made shortly after the March on Rome, Mussolini
stated,
<snip>
You're not allowed to use fascist speechs as though they were
evidence of
what fascists actually do. It's too retarded to be worth responding
to.
 then you do not agree with privatization either correct?
  I agree with privatization, but again that is not a defined part of
fascist policy, it's simply a policy some fascists did sometimes.
 that is a lie also. once in power, they instituted said polices
immediately.
  By "immediately" you presumably mean "after 2 years of the economy
going to hell when
they had no choice".  At least that's what happened in Chile.
http://www.spiritone.com/~gdy52150/chpt1.htm
In various speeches made shortly after the March on Rome, Mussolini
stated, "We must take from state authority those functions for which
it is incompetent and which it performs badly... I believe the state
should renounce its economic functions, especially those carried out
through monopolies, because the state is incompetent in such
matters... We must put an end to state railways, state postal service
and state insurance." The state returned large monopolies to the
private sector after returning them to profitability such as the
Consortium of Match Manufactures, privatized the insurance system in
1923, the telephone system in 1925, and many of the public works.
In Germany the Nazis announced they would end nationalization of
private industries when they seized power. In 1932, Hitler returned
control of the Gelsenkirhen company to private hands and in 1936
returned the stock of "United Steel" to private hands. Throughout
1933-1936, the Nazi returned to private hands the control of several
banks: Dresdner, Danat, Commerz and Privatbank, the Deutsche Bank, and
several others. In 1936, the steamship company Deutcher Schiff and
Maschinenbau was returned to the private sector. In 1934, Dr. Schacht,
the Nazi Minister of Economy, gave instructions to hasten the
privatization of municipal enterprises. These enterprises were
especially coveted by the rich industrialists, as they had been
prosperous even during the depression.
Right so they did things to gain support, IN ONE INSTANCE. I note
you don't talk about Pinochet in this context. You keep claiming that
a shared desire to privatise makes fascism and libertarianism
"identical"
which means you don't think that a difference in say, government
spending
of 30% of GDP compared to 5% is signfiicant. Which means you're
insane.
 then you do believe that the wealthy should pay their fair share in a
progressive income tax correct?
  No I don't believe anyone should pay any taxes.  Yet another
difference
between fascists and libertarians.
 fascism is not monolithic.
  But all fascists believe people should pay taxes shithead.  I don't
therefore
I AM NOT A FASCIST.  Fascists believe in increasing state power, I
believe in
eliminating it.
 fascism is not monolithic,
If fascism means anything at all it means support of a State. Get
it through
your moronic head, fascism is fairly well defined and your attempt to
reduce
that definition to "likes privatisation" is an evil, stupid,
incompetent attempt
at propagandistic douchebaggery.
and nether is libertarianism, but they
share many of the same traits, enough so that its hard to tell the two
apart.
So you can't tell them apart despite the differences in views on
government spending, censorship,, war, imperialism, gay rights,
medical
licensing, roads, government reglation of business, social groups,
foreign
policy, government funding of research, government funding of medical
care,
government subsidies, tariffs, racial quotas, import quotas? If with
all this
you find it hard to tell them apart then you're a fucking retard. And
I appologize
to the retarded people for implying they could be as stupid as you.
but under fascism, taxes went down
severely for the wealthy and powerful.
  But they still existed and would continue to exist until the fascist
regime was overthrown,
therefore I am not a fascist.
fascism is not monolithic, and nether is libertarianism, but they
share many of the same traits, enough so that its hard to tell the two
apart.
Only for people who don't care about anything but crushing any
opposition
to their evil desires for fascist dicatorship, like you for instance.
 then you do not believe that business should be regulation free
correct?
  Fascists never believed that and certainly never put it into
practice.
 sure they did.
"We must take from state authority those functions for which it is
incompetent and which it performs badly... I believe the state should
renounce its economic functions"
  Hey shithead, party political statements are not proof, or even
good evidence.
 proof, i have shown you repeatedly.
No you haven't, you've just lied and thought I wouldn't notice.
 you must believe then that the state has no right to interfere in
economic functions correct?
  Yep, and that seperates me from the fascists.  The fascists had
whole ministries devoted to interfering int he economic functions
of every person, corporation, union, and gold club in their country.
That you are ignorant of this would astound me if I didn't already
know you think NORTH KOREA is a free market economy.
 they interfered only when a corporation wanted them to.
Right, so corporatiosn wanted them to force them to loan the
government
money that would never be paid back. In any case even if they only
interferred when a corporation wanted them to that's still a massive
difference between their position and mine. So fuck off shithead
caught you
lying again.
otherwise,
the corporation ran free to do as they pleased. so you are4 a admitted
corporatists, a fascist.
No fucktard, fascists are pro-interfering in the economy, I'm anti.
You're
pro.
 then you also believe in fair and free elections correct?
  No I don't believe in any elections, I'm an anarchist.  Minarchists
tend to believe
in fair and free elections, but they're only part of libertarianism.
  So far you've claimed that fascism and libertarianism are
"identical" (your word)
and yet the only similarities are that some fascists privatise and
fascists sometimes
claim to be against regulation.  In fact though regulation of business
under all fascist
regimes was intense.
  Sorry liar but one thing that fascists sometimes do and one thing
they claim to do
but generally don't doesn't make them "identical" to libertarianism.
You know this
which is why you don't address things like tariffs, currency controls,
gay rights, etc.
when you're talking about fascism and libertarianism being
"identical". You know that
to discuss them would be to admit you're lying.
 now are you for allowing labor unions?
  When did I say that I was against allowing labour unions retard?
 i am asking a questions. are you for the rights of labor unions, to
have some control over corporations?
  If you say "are you now" that implies I was ever against it.
Support
that implication or withdraw it.
  I note that you're now asking a totally different question because
you
know you can't support your previous implication.
 nope, if free independent labor unions exist, they will have some
control over a corporations policies.
No they have some control over the actions of their members. The
actions of the corporations are still under the total control of the
boards. The boards will no doubt make decisions based on the actions
of the unions either actual or potential, but this is not unions
"having
some control over a corporation". This is how stupid you are, you
don't even know when you're changing the question.
do you favor free independent
labor unions, that can have the power to affect corporate policies?
Again, changing the question. Anyone can affect corporate policies
by trading or not trading with corporations. Given I'm a libertarian
of course I support the right of people to trade or not trade freely
with corporations. That you think you're catching me out on this
simply illustrates that you know fuck all about libertarianism.
 are you for environmental regulations?
  Are you?  Because that's something you'd have in common with
fascists.
 when you dodge a question like that, it casts a shadow over you, one
can then extrapolate, that you are against environmental laws correct?
  If you really did extrapolate that then you would have to know I am
not a fascist since they are in favor of environment laws.
 nice dodge.
Yes you did dodge nicely.
pinochet let chile become one of the worst polluted
countries in the world.
Well yes, but he was still in favor of environmental laws. So was
Hitler.
You're trying to imply that anti-environmentalism is a fascist and
libertarian
position, but in reality fascists are often pro-environment.
libertarians fight environmental laws in america. are you for or against them?
Which laws? You're trying to pretend that I'm a fascist if I don't
want to give up
responsibility for the environment to the government, despite the fact
that
fascist want government to have that responsibility.
Libertarians generally want the enviroment protected by enforcement
of private
property rights. Is that "
 are you for labor laws?
  Nope, other than the usual law that you're not allowed to defraud
your employer or employees.
  then you are for forced labor,
  I don't consider "You're not allowed to initiate force" to be a
"labor law",
which means I don't consider banning forced labor to be a labor law.
ROTFLOL!!!!!!!!!!!!! if there is no law against it, its legal.
Oh shithead, you really are fucking stupid. What I said was that I
don't
consider the law against forced labor to be a labor law, I didn't say
it
shouldn't be a law. Fuck you're retarded.
you are for forced labor:))))))))))
No shithead I'm just not for calling the law against
So
great by your definition I am for "labor laws".  Great another thing
we
BOTH have in common with the fascists.  But nice try claiming I'm
in favor of forced labor because of some definition chopping you
scumbag.
 you just agreed with no labor laws on forced labor, scumbag.
No shithead I didn't. In fact if you read what I wrote I said that
if we're going to call the law against forced labor a "labor law"
then I'm for "labor laws" by that definition, which means I'm for
banning forced labor.
and child labor,
  I am for allowing the government to control what consensual trades
of labor
for money, goods and/or services happen between children and adults if
that's
what you mean.  Note yet again you're on the facists side of the
argument.
 so you are against child labor????
Sorry that should have been
"I am NOT for allowing the government to control what consensual
trades
of labor for money, goods and/or services happen between children and
adults if
that'swhat you mean. Note yet again you're on the facists side of the
argument.
fascists used forced labor, and
chile labor, which i am firmly against, and it looks like you embrace
part of that scenario.
You are all for forced labor and fascists had child labor laws,
which I am
against. Yet again, you're on the fascist side.
?> they were all> hallmarks of fascist ideology. without labor laws, you have communist
china:)))))
  Communist China has a hell of a lot of labor laws as you just
defined them.
 any tin horn conservative/libertarian/fascist/communist
dictatorships, have lots of propaganda devises. but are the laws
enforced, i doubt it.
So fucktard you just admitted that you lied about Communist China
not
having labor laws. So fuck off. As for the laws not being enforced,
they
are very much enforced, try to get a job in the city without a
residence
permit if you doubt me. No doubt it can be done with money but any
time the Party wants to send you to jail it can.
 are you for the rights of corporations, over its workers?
  What does that even mean?  I am for the rights of all individuals,
whether practised individual or collectively via groups like
corporations or
unions (note limited liability is not such a right).  You're so
fucking ignorant
of my position you don't even know what you're criticising.
 i am merely asking you questions.
 You are asking questions that don't mean anything.
 you mean you will not answer.
No I already did answer.
do corporations have rights over their workers?
Any rights that the workers agreed to by legitimate contract
they have over their workers, and vice versa. Really are you so
ignorant you don't know standard libertarian beliefs? Yet you
claim to know so much about us don't you fucktard?
without labor laws, corporations
institute forced labor,
  When did this happen?  What situation without "labor laws"
defined in the usual way resulted in corporations instituting forced
labor?  In fact the places where corporations instituted forced labor
had lots of labor laws, especially the fascist ones.
 does not mean they are enforced.
So your claim was a lie, there never was the situation that you
claimed
happened. In any case labor laws were often enforced in fascist
regimes.
You seem to think that enforcing labor laws is something corporations
don't
want and that benefits the worker. Neither is neccesarily the case.
the soviet union had a constitution
that nobody paid attention to. it was a prop for the gullible.
corporations are using forced labor every day in many parts of asia.
No doubt, but that doesn't mean that labor laws aren't being
enforced.
BTW earn to read moron. "I am for the rights of all individuals,
whether practised individual or collectively" This obviously
includes the right not to be forced to work.
 its about time. then you are for tough labor laws outlawing forced
labor correct?
Well I don't call that a "tough labor law" but yes. Could you now
go
back and retract the bullshit claim that I am for forced labor you
dishonest
pathetic little man.
and child labor. so are you for the rights of
citizens, to have a say over how corporations operate?
  If by that you mean should the citizens be allowed to forbid them
for using force or fraud then yes of course, it's a fundamental
libertarian principle that nobody should be allowed to use force
or fraud.  That you are ignorant of that and yet claim to know what
libertarianism is simply shows what a stupid scumbag you are.
 libertarianism is not monolithic.
The prohibition of force and fraud is universal amoung libertarians,
fucktard. That you claim not to know this disqualifies you from
commenting on libertarianism.
in america, many libertarians favor
corporate rights, over citizen rights.
Really? And how are these "citizen rights" defined by you? You've
made an unsupported and undefinable claim and you expect it to be
taken seriously.
  Of course that might not be what the question means.  So clarify,
what does it mean?  Who are "the cititzens" and what does it mean
for them to "have a say"?  Do you mean "the government" "has a say"?
 yes. government represents its citizens.
So in other words you want the governement (not the citizens) to
have a say
in how corporations are run, which is the fascist position. Yet again
you are
with the fascists.
And by "have a say" do you mean "can override any decision" without
accountability to the corporation"?  Because If you do, and I suspect
you do, you're the one who's closer to the fascists.
 fascism did not allow citizen control of corporations at all.
They allowed (indeed mandated) considerable control over
corporations by
government so by your definition they did allow "citizen control".
Seriously
how do you not know that there were thousands of people in every
fascist
regime who ran regulations that controlled corporations?
the only way to control corporations is thru government action, otherwise
citizens cannot control corporations on their own, its impossible.
So you've never heard of not buying something, moron?
are you for the rights of corporations over governments?
  I am for the rights of anyone over governments because the rights
of
govenrments do not exist.  In any case when did fascists champion the
rights of corporations over govenrment?  Seriously you have no idea
what
fascism is.  Fascism by definition holds the rights of the government
supreme.
http://www.brainyquote.com/quotes/authors/b/benito_mussolini.html
Fascism should more appropriately be called Corporatism because it is
a merger of state and corporate power.
Benito Mussolini
  Yeah shit for brains try to pretend that means corporations have
power and
the government doesn't control them.  The problem is that fascists
always
excercise complete control of the corporations.
 yea, its why so many of them flocked to the fascists. they had carte
blanche.
Learn to wikipedia bitch.
An inherent aspect of fascist economies was economic dirigisme,[3]
meaning an economy where the government exerts strong directive
influence, and effectively controls production and allocation of
resources. In general, apart from the nationalizations of some
industries, fascist economies were based on private property and
private initiative, but these were contingent upon service to the
state.[4]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Economics_of_fascism#General_characteristics_of_fascist_economies
are you for the rights of citizens over corporations.
  Again, what does this mean?  I am for the rights of all people,
citizens and noncitizens (the distinction being purely arbitrary) whether
individually or collectively exercised.  This is how fucking ignorant you are, you
don't even know the libertarian position and still you claim you know all
about it .
  You are far closer to fascism than I ever was.  Suck it bitch.
 but you evaded the question,
  No I answered it completely, you lying shitbag, despite the fact
that it was too vague
to know what it meant.  You have a complete description of my attitude
to corporations,
citizens, and the relationship between them.  You're just too stupid
to understand it.
 nope, you have provided no means of control over corporations.
The only thing needed is a prohibition on force and fraud, which
controls the corporations quite nicely. Sorry liar but you can't get
away
with bullshit like that.
it cannot be done without government action.
Even if that were true, (and as discussed I'm an anarchist so I
don't believe
it) the prohibition on force and fraud is quite sufficient "government
action"
to achieve the results you want.
so your words are empty,
No shithead what I propose is quite sufficient to prevent forced
labor.
and perhaps a ploy. the only way citizens can control very powerful and
wealthy corporations, are thru government actions. are you for that?
No I am for anarchy, in part because government actions tend to be
to the disadvantage of people versus powerful and wealth corporations.
If we must have government then I am for the greatest possible
prohibition on force and fraud by government action. That's what all
libertarians are for if government must exist.
are you for the rights of citizens over
corporations. what that means is, do citizens have the right to
exercise control over corporations?
  Again you haven't said what that actually means.  Do you mean the
government should have control over corporations?  Like in a fascist
system?
 citizens cannot control corporations on their own, and the regulation
of corporations is not fascism.
No but it's a big part of it.
"We must take from state authority those functions for which it is
incompetent and which it performs badly... I believe the state should
renounce its economic functions"
By which he meant only that the State shouldn't directly produce
things,
not that it should not control the groups that do.
 so far i have not agreed with one position of fascism,
  You believe in the a state do you not?  That's a position of fascism
you agree with.  Along with universal government paid health care,
government pensions, labor laws, tax-paid armies, and so on. Seriously
liar did you not know I would get you on that crap, fucktard?
 the state can be fascist, i am against that. but most states are not
fascist.
Nevertheless you are for the State and I am not, so you are on this
subject with the facists and I am not. This is true for over a dozen
things yet you claim I'm a fascist and you're not.
but, libertarians are against government, and are for free
unfettered markets correct?
Correct, so what? Fascist aren't.
yet you have
either agreed with them all,
  So you're claiming I've agree with the fascist position on labor
laws (which
they favor and I don't), government set wage rates (which they favor
and I don't),
tariff (which they favor and I don't), large tax-paid armies (which
they favor and I don't)?
Seriously fucktard who are you trying to kid?  You're nothing but a
sad pathetic liar who
thinks that if he slings enough shit and never learns anything he
won't have to admit
he's a fucking moron who likes coercing people.
 you have sided with much,
By "much" you mean privatisation and little else. You sided with
them on
almost every issue.
although you are not monolithic, you have
just about agreed with every fascist position i have came at you with.
Bullshit.
no labor laws outlawing forced labor, means its legal.
" BTW earn to read moron. "I am for the rights of all individuals,
whether practised individual or collectively" This obviously
includes the right not to be forced to work."

So you can't even remember that I specifically said I was for
outlawing forced labor shithead. This is how pathetic you are.
You can't even not lie about something that was talked about
in the post you replied to.
or simply evaded answering the question,
  Nope didn't do that once.
 once you became aware that your positions, are the same as many
fascists position,
By "many" you appear to mean about 4, one of which (anti-Marxism) is
shared by everyone who rationally examines the evidence. You on the
other hand side with them on dozens of issues. Tell me, exactly what
do
you disagree with them on?
you became very vague,
No liar I'm quite specific, you're just too stupid to understand it
and could not understand things.
That's because you didn't state things clearly. I asked for
clarification
and you dodged.
before you became aware, you were spot on with your answers,
and they were the same positions of the fascists.
Listen shitbag, you're talking to me about my own positions and
lying
about it. The positions I "share" with the fascists are anti-
Marxism. Wait
that's only one position. That the fascists SOMETIMES do some things
that libertarians believe are good while doing masses of things they
think
are bad hardly proves that they are the same. Particularly when you
consider
that fascists do a lot of things for political convenience and
support.
which casts a shadow of a doubt of your true beliefs.
 are you pro free market?
  Yes, unlike the fascists.
 reallly, the norwegian shooter was pro free markets.
You've given no evidence of that beyond that he agreed with someone
who claimed to be free market on subjects other than free markets.
 are you anti-marxist?
  Yes, aren't you?
 really, the norwegian shooter was anti-marxist. i am against all
forms of extremism.
Yeah fucktard dodge the question. You're not at all against
extremism,
you're an extremist yourself.
are you anti-big government?
  Yes unlike the fascists.
 the norwegian shooter was anti-big government.
I doubt that very much since he was a neo-Nazi and therefore by
definition
in favor of a regime that was massively big government.
 you keep agreeing with these monsters,
And you agree with them more. In any case why should agreeing with
them on
some issues mean I'm a fascist? By that standard you're one too.
and you wonder why we view
you, as we do:)))
Nickname unavailable
2011-07-29 17:18:14 UTC
Permalink
 ok, so far you have agreed much with fascism, and you have done it in
public, here it is,
  So far I have agreed with privatisation, which as discussed before
is what
SOME fascists do SOME of the time.
 privatization was a cornerstone of fascist economic policy, and the
minute they assumed power, they instituted privatization. something
you agree with, i do not.
  No privatisation is not the "cornerstone" of fascist policy massive
government spending is.
That you're utterly ignorant of this doesn't suprise me.  Nor does it
suprise me that you
simply asserted something without any effort to prove or even define
it.
 i have supplied credible, verifiable evidence,
  No fucktard you haven't.
liar.
that points out
privatization was one of the cornerstones of fascism,
  No liar, you've pointed out that some fascists do it sometimes.
liar.
and that those
stated policies were immediately instituted once they gained power.
  In some cases liar.
liar.
now you can back up your lie with verifiable, credible, sources and
cites,
  You claimed that privatisation was a "cornerstone" of fascist
economic
policy.  Prove it.  Don't just prove that it's something they
sometimes do.
beyond lying.
that the fascists did not have privatization high on their
agenda.
  You made the claim you support it.  That they did it sometimes is
not proof it was "high on their agenda" indeed it doesn't prove it was
on their
agenda at all.  Fascist governments generally come to power during
financial
crises when governments need to raise money.  Privatisation is one way
to
raise money.
they instituted privatization immediately, and made it a high
priority liar.
  I do not agree with "much" of
fascism in fact I agree with less of it than you do.  Count up how
much
you agree with fascism on 1) government funding of primary, secondardy
and tertiary education, 2) Government paying for most of the health
care, 3) government handling negotiations between employers and
employees,
4) medical licensing.  Now maybe you don't agree with the fascists on
all of
these but I bet you do, and that's ALREADY more than I agree with them
on.
 none of that is fascism.
  All of it is fascist policies that you agree with and I don't.  So
far you're in
far closer agreement to fascists than I am.
 none of it is fascist.
  Yes fucktard it is all fascist policy that you agree with..
none of it is fascist.
 so then you do not agree with these statements correct?
"We must take from state authority those functions for which it is
incompetent and which it performs badly... I believe the state should 
> renounce its economic functions, especially those carried out through 
> monopolies, because the state is incompetent in such matters... We 
> must put an end to state railways, state postal service and state 
> insurance." 
> "hasten the privatization of municipal enterprises." 
>  "We have broken with the practice of persecuting capital."
  I agree with them.  They are not however really part of fascist
ideology,
they are simply things some fascists did for political support.  The
fascists
persecuted capital quite a bit.
 that is a lie. once in power, they instituted said policies
immediately.
  What policies?  Are you seriously claimign that there wasn't a state
railway under fascism?  Or a state
mail service?  The state under fascism does a hell of a lot for which
it is incompetent, including controlling
the majority of the economy.
 this is why i consider you insane.
  So you consider me insane because you disagree with me and you can't
refute me.
i have repeatedly shown you empirical evidence, you come back and say
i have not shown you. which means you are a certifiable serial liar.
http://www.spiritone.com/~gdy52150/chpt1.htm
In various speeches made shortly after the March on Rome, Mussolini
stated,
<snip>
  You're not allowed to use fascist speechs as though they were
evidence of
what fascists actually do.  It's too retarded to be worth responding
to.
but they did it. you cannot move the goal posts. they actually did
it. so quite lying.
 then you do not agree with privatization either correct?
  I agree with privatization, but again that is not a defined part of
fascist policy, it's simply a policy some fascists did sometimes.
 that is a lie also. once in power, they instituted said polices
immediately.
  By "immediately" you presumably mean "after 2 years of the economy
going to hell when
they had no choice".  At least that's what happened in Chile.
http://www.spiritone.com/~gdy52150/chpt1.htm
In various speeches made shortly after the March on Rome, Mussolini
stated, "We must take from state authority those functions for which
it is incompetent and which it performs badly... I believe the state
should renounce its economic functions, especially those carried out
through monopolies, because the state is incompetent in such
matters... We must put an end to state railways, state postal service
and state insurance." The state returned large monopolies to the
private sector after returning them to profitability such as the
Consortium of Match Manufactures, privatized the insurance system in
1923, the telephone system in 1925, and many of the public works.
In Germany the Nazis announced they would end nationalization of
private industries when they seized power. In 1932, Hitler returned
control of the Gelsenkirhen company to private hands and in 1936
returned the stock of "United Steel" to private hands. Throughout
1933-1936, the Nazi returned to private hands the control of several
banks: Dresdner, Danat, Commerz and Privatbank, the Deutsche Bank, and
several others. In 1936, the steamship company Deutcher Schiff and
Maschinenbau was returned to the private sector. In 1934, Dr. Schacht,
the Nazi Minister of Economy, gave instructions to hasten the
privatization of municipal enterprises. These enterprises were
especially coveted by the rich industrialists, as they had been
prosperous even during the depression.
  Right so they did things to gain support, IN ONE INSTANCE.  I note
you don't talk about Pinochet in this context.  You keep claiming that
a shared desire to privatise makes fascism and libertarianism
"identical"
which means you don't think that a difference in say, government
spending
of 30% of GDP compared to 5% is signfiicant.  Which means you're
insane.
you cannot muddy this. the fascist had privatization high on their
agenda. and they instituted it right away. you keep going to pinochet,
you do know he was a fascist correct?
 then you do believe that the wealthy should pay their fair share in a
progressive income tax correct?
  No I don't believe anyone should pay any taxes.  Yet another
difference
between fascists and libertarians.
 fascism is not monolithic.
  But all fascists believe people should pay taxes shithead.  I don't
therefore
I AM NOT A FASCIST.  Fascists believe in increasing state power, I
believe in
eliminating it.
 fascism is not monolithic,
  If fascism means anything at all it means support of a State.  Get
it through
your moronic head, fascism is fairly well defined and your attempt to
reduce
that definition to "likes privatisation" is an evil, stupid,
incompetent attempt
at propagandistic douchebaggery.
http://www.brainyquote.com/quotes/authors/b/benito_mussolini.html

Fascism should more appropriately be called Corporatism because it is
a merger of state and corporate power.
Benito Mussolini

Fascism should rightly be called Corporatism, as it is the merger of
corporate and government power.
Benito Mussolini
and nether is libertarianism, but they
share many of the same traits, enough so that its hard to tell the two
apart.
  So you can't tell them apart despite the differences in views on
government spending, censorship,, war, imperialism, gay rights,
medical
licensing, roads, government reglation of business, social groups,
foreign
policy, government funding of research, government funding of medical
care,
government subsidies, tariffs, racial quotas, import quotas?  If with
all this
you find it hard to tell them apart then you're a fucking retard.  And
I appologize
to the retarded people for implying they could be as stupid as you.
but, in the end, corporations will rule supreme. because you are
against citizens being able to use government, to control the super
wealthy and powerful.
but under fascism, taxes went down
severely for the wealthy and powerful.
  But they still existed and would continue to exist until the fascist
regime was overthrown,
therefore I am not a fascist.
fascism is not monolithic, and nether is libertarianism, but they
share many of the same traits, enough so that its hard to tell the two
apart.
  Only for people who don't care about anything but crushing any
opposition
to their evil desires for fascist dicatorship, like you for instance.
yet you use von mises as your empirical evidence. he worked for the
fascists.
 then you do not believe that business should be regulation free
correct?
  Fascists never believed that and certainly never put it into
practice.
 sure they did.
"We must take from state authority those functions for which it is
incompetent and which it performs badly... I believe the state should
renounce its economic functions"
  Hey shithead, party political statements are not proof, or even
good evidence.
 proof, i have shown you repeatedly.
  No you haven't, you've just lied and thought I wouldn't notice.
liar.
 you must believe then that the state has no right to interfere in
economic functions correct?
  Yep, and that seperates me from the fascists.  The fascists had
whole ministries devoted to interfering int he economic functions
of every person, corporation, union, and gold club in their country.
That you are ignorant of this would astound me if I didn't already
know you think NORTH KOREA is a free market economy.
 they interfered only when a corporation wanted them to.
  Right, so corporatiosn wanted them to force them to loan the
government
money that would never be paid back.  In any case even if they only
interferred when a corporation wanted them to that's still a massive
difference between their position and mine.  So fuck off shithead
caught you
lying again.
nope.

http://www.brainyquote.com/quotes/authors/b/benito_mussolini.html

Fascism should more appropriately be called Corporatism because it is
a merger of state and corporate power.
Benito Mussolini

Fascism should rightly be called Corporatism, as it is the merger of
corporate and government power.
Benito Mussolini
otherwise,
the corporation ran free to do as they pleased. so you are4 a admitted
corporatists, a fascist.
 No fucktard, fascists are pro-interfering in the economy, I'm anti.
You're
pro.
then you are against citizens being able to use government to control
the super wealthy and powerful correct?
 then you also believe in fair and free elections correct?
  No I don't believe in any elections, I'm an anarchist.  Minarchists
tend to believe
in fair and free elections, but they're only part of libertarianism.
  So far you've claimed that fascism and libertarianism are
"identical" (your word)
and yet the only similarities are that some fascists privatise and
fascists sometimes
claim to be against regulation.  In fact though regulation of business
under all fascist
regimes was intense.
  Sorry liar but one thing that fascists sometimes do and one thing
they claim to do
but generally don't doesn't make them "identical" to libertarianism.
You know this
which is why you don't address things like tariffs, currency controls,
gay rights, etc.
when you're talking about fascism and libertarianism being
"identical". You know that
to discuss them would be to admit you're lying.
 now are you for allowing labor unions?
  When did I say that I was against allowing labour unions retard?
 i am asking a questions. are you for the rights of labor unions, to
have some control over corporations?
  If you say "are you now" that implies I was ever against it.
Support
that implication or withdraw it.
  I note that you're now asking a totally different question because
you
know you can't support your previous implication.
 nope, if free independent labor unions exist, they will have some
control over a corporations policies.
  No they have some control over the actions of their members.  The
actions of the corporations are still under the total control of the
boards. The boards will no doubt make decisions based on the actions
of the unions either actual or potential, but this is not unions
"having
some control over a corporation".  This is how stupid you are, you
don't even know when you're changing the question.
if a union has some control over corporations, it means they are
pushing the corporation into a more pro citizen stance. you simply
evaded the question.
do you favor free independent
labor unions, that can have the power to affect corporate policies?
  Again, changing the question.  Anyone can affect corporate policies
by trading or not trading with corporations.  Given I'm a libertarian
of course I support the right of people to trade or not trade freely
with corporations.  That you think you're catching me out on this
simply illustrates that you know fuck all about libertarianism.
but i caught you. citizens on their own cannot change corporate
behavior. gigantic corporations are so well spread out, that there is
no was except thru their governments, which you are against. fascist
in nature:)))))
 are you for environmental regulations?
  Are you?  Because that's something you'd have in common with
fascists.
 when you dodge a question like that, it casts a shadow over you, one
can then extrapolate, that you are against environmental laws correct?
  If you really did extrapolate that then you would have to know I am
not a fascist since they are in favor of environment laws.
 nice dodge.
  Yes you did dodge nicely.
nope, i am simply pinning jello to the wall.
pinochet let chile become one of the worst polluted
countries in the world.
  Well yes, but he was still in favor of environmental laws.  So was
Hitler.
You're trying to imply that anti-environmentalism is a fascist and
libertarian
position, but in reality fascists are often pro-environment.
snicker. you really are a stupid liar.
libertarians fight environmental laws in america. are you for or against them?
  Which laws?  You're trying to pretend that I'm a fascist if I don't
want to give up
responsibility for the environment to the government, despite the fact
that
fascist want government to have that responsibility.
  Libertarians generally want the enviroment protected by enforcement
of private
property rights.  Is that "
then you are for carte blanch for corporations in the environmental
arena. that is what i see.

its called corporatism:)))))))
 are you for labor laws?
  Nope, other than the usual law that you're not allowed to defraud
your employer or employees.
  then you are for forced labor,
  I don't consider "You're not allowed to initiate force" to be a
"labor law",
which means I don't consider banning forced labor to be a labor law.
ROTFLOL!!!!!!!!!!!!! if there is no law against it, its legal.
  Oh shithead, you really are fucking stupid.  What I said was that I
don't
consider the law against forced labor to be a labor law, I didn't say
it
shouldn't be a law.  Fuck you're retarded.
if it involves labor, its a labor law. caught you again:)
you are for forced labor:))))))))))
  No shithead I'm just not for calling the law against
caught you again. no law, then its legal:)))))))
So
great by your definition I am for "labor laws".  Great another thing
we
BOTH have in common with the fascists.  But nice try claiming I'm
in favor of forced labor because of some definition chopping you
scumbag.
 you just agreed with no labor laws on forced labor, scumbag.
  No shithead I didn't.  In fact if you read what I wrote I said that
if we're going to call the law against forced labor a "labor law"
then I'm for "labor laws" by that definition, which means I'm for
banning forced labor.
well its about time. me thinks you are only agreeing, after i have
carefully forced your position.
and child labor,
  I am for allowing the government to control what consensual trades
of labor
for money, goods and/or services happen between children and adults if
that's
what you mean.  Note yet again you're on the facists side of the
argument.
 so you are against child labor????
  Sorry that should have been
"I am NOT for allowing the government to control what consensual
trades
of labor for money, goods and/or services happen between children and
adults if
that'swhat you mean.  Note yet again you're on the facists side of the
argument.
then you are for child labor. the fascists were also.
fascists used forced labor, and
chile labor, which i am firmly against, and it looks like you embrace
part of that scenario.
  You are all for forced labor and fascists had child labor laws,
which I am
against.  Yet again, you're on the fascist side.
fascist had window dressing for stupid and gullible people. but they
used child labor, and forced labor, as do the communists, and
libertarians.
?> they were all> hallmarks of fascist ideology. without labor laws, you have communist
china:)))))
  Communist China has a hell of a lot of labor laws as you just
defined them.
 any tin horn conservative/libertarian/fascist/communist
dictatorships, have lots of propaganda devises. but are the laws
enforced, i doubt it.
  So fucktard you just admitted that you lied about Communist China
not
having labor laws.  So fuck off.  As for the laws not being enforced,
they
are very much enforced, try to get a job in the city without a
residence
permit if you doubt me.  No doubt it can be done with money but any
time the Party wants to send you to jail it can.
you are to stupid to understand propaganda.
 are you for the rights of corporations, over its workers?
  What does that even mean?  I am for the rights of all individuals,
whether practised individual or collectively via groups like
corporations or
unions (note limited liability is not such a right).  You're so
fucking ignorant
of my position you don't even know what you're criticising.
 i am merely asking you questions.
 You are asking questions that don't mean anything.
 you mean you will not answer.
  No I already did answer.
http://www.brainyquote.com/quotes/authors/b/benito_mussolini.html

Fascism should more appropriately be called Corporatism because it is
a merger of state and corporate power.
Benito Mussolini

Fascism should rightly be called Corporatism, as it is the merger of
corporate and government power.
Benito Mussolini
do corporations have rights over their workers?
  Any rights that the workers agreed to by legitimate contract
they have over their workers, and vice versa.  Really are you so
ignorant you don't know standard libertarian beliefs?  Yet you
claim to know so much about us don't you fucktard?
i understand them completely. its why you keep sticking your foot
into your mouth.
without labor laws, corporations
institute forced labor,
  When did this happen?  What situation without "labor laws"
defined in the usual way resulted in corporations instituting forced
labor?  In fact the places where corporations instituted forced labor
had lots of labor laws, especially the fascist ones.
 does not mean they are enforced.
  So your claim was a lie, there never was the situation that you
claimed
happened.  In any case labor laws were often enforced in fascist
regimes.
You seem to think that enforcing labor laws is something corporations
don't
want and that benefits the worker.  Neither is neccesarily the case.
snicker. if forced labor was used, and it was in a gigantic way, then
any laws against it, were a farce. but you are to stupid to understand
that. but you do embrace forced labor, and child labor. if a worker is
desperate, they will accept a contract stating forced labor is ok, you
even endorse it.
the soviet union had a constitution
that nobody paid attention to. it was a prop for the gullible.
corporations are using forced labor every day in many parts of asia.
  No doubt, but that doesn't mean that labor laws aren't being
enforced.
liar. in a libertarian society, the wealthy and powerful do as they
please.
  BTW earn to read moron. "I am for the rights of all individuals,
whether practised individual or collectively"  This obviously
includes the right not to be forced to work.
 its about time. then you are for tough labor laws outlawing forced
labor correct?
  Well I don't call that a "tough labor law" but yes.  Could you now
go
back and retract the bullshit claim that I am for forced labor you
dishonest
pathetic little man.
but you just said that any contract a corporation has with its
workers, then you would not interfere. if a corporation finds
desperate uneducated workers who will sign a contract allowing forced
or child labor, you are against government interfering with said
contracts. so you cannot be against something that you would allow.
sounds fascist in nature to me.
and child labor. so are you for the rights of
citizens, to have a say over how corporations operate?
  If by that you mean should the citizens be allowed to forbid them
for using force or fraud then yes of course, it's a fundamental
libertarian principle that nobody should be allowed to use force
or fraud.  That you are ignorant of that and yet claim to know what
libertarianism is simply shows what a stupid scumbag you are.
 libertarianism is not monolithic.
  The prohibition of force and fraud is universal amoung libertarians,
fucktard.  That you claim not to know this disqualifies you from
commenting on libertarianism.
with no way to enforce fraud laws, you are the fraud.
in america, many libertarians favor
corporate rights, over citizen rights.
 Really? And how are these "citizen rights" defined by you?  You've
made an unsupported and undefinable claim and you expect it to be
taken seriously.
snicker. the koch brothers.
  Of course that might not be what the question means.  So clarify,
what does it mean?  Who are "the cititzens" and what does it mean
for them to "have a say"?  Do you mean "the government" "has a say"?
 yes. government represents its citizens.
  So in other words you want the governement (not the citizens) to
have a say
in how corporations are run, which is the fascist position.  Yet again
you are
with the fascists.
control of corporations to benefit citizens is not fascism. this is
fascism.


http://www.brainyquote.com/quotes/authors/b/benito_mussolini.html

Fascism should more appropriately be called Corporatism because it is
a merger of state and corporate power.
Benito Mussolini

Fascism should rightly be called Corporatism, as it is the merger of
corporate and government power.
Benito Mussolini
And by "have a say" do you mean "can override any decision" without
accountability to the corporation"?  Because If you do, and I suspect
you do, you're the one who's closer to the fascists.
 fascism did not allow citizen control of corporations at all.
  They allowed (indeed mandated) considerable control over
corporations by
government so by your definition they did allow "citizen control".
Seriously
how do you not know that there were thousands of people in every
fascist
regime who ran regulations that controlled corporations?
fascist governments do not represent their citizens.

http://www.brainyquote.com/quotes/authors/b/benito_mussolini.html

Fascism should more appropriately be called Corporatism because it is
a merger of state and corporate power.
Benito Mussolini

Fascism should rightly be called Corporatism, as it is the merger of
corporate and government power.
Benito Mussolini
the only way to control corporations is thru government action, otherwise
citizens cannot control corporations on their own, its impossible.
  So you've never heard of not buying something, moron?
are you for the rights of corporations over governments?
  I am for the rights of anyone over governments because the rights
of
govenrments do not exist.  In any case when did fascists champion the
rights of corporations over govenrment?  Seriously you have no idea
what
fascism is.  Fascism by definition holds the rights of the government
supreme.
http://www.brainyquote.com/quotes/authors/b/benito_mussolini.html
Fascism should more appropriately be called Corporatism because it is
a merger of state and corporate power.
Benito Mussolini
  Yeah shit for brains try to pretend that means corporations have
power and
the government doesn't control them.  The problem is that fascists
always
excercise complete control of the corporations.
 yea, its why so many of them flocked to the fascists. they had carte
blanche.
    Learn to wikipedia bitch.
An inherent aspect of fascist economies was economic dirigisme,[3]
meaning an economy where the government exerts strong directive
influence, and effectively controls production and allocation of
resources. In general, apart from the nationalizations of some
industries, fascist economies were based on private property and
private initiative, but these were contingent upon service to the
state.[4]
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Economics_of_fascism#General_characteris...
http://www.brainyquote.com/quotes/authors/b/benito_mussolini.html

Fascism should more appropriately be called Corporatism because it is
a merger of state and corporate power.
Benito Mussolini

Fascism should rightly be called Corporatism, as it is the merger of
corporate and government power.
Benito Mussolini




" For too many of us the political equality we once had won was
meaningless in the face of economic inequality. A small group had
concentrated into their own hands an almost complete control over
other people's property, other people's money, other people's labor —
other people's lives. For too many of us life was no longer free;
liberty no longer real; men could no longer follow the pursuit of
happiness.
Against economic tyranny such as this, the American citizen could
appeal only to the organized power of government. The collapse of 1929
showed up the despotism for what it was. The election of 1932 was the
people's mandate to end it. Under that mandate it is being ended.
President Franklin Roosevelt "
are you for the rights of citizens over corporations.
  Again, what does this mean?  I am for the rights of all people,
citizens and noncitizens (the distinction being purely arbitrary) whether
individually or collectively exercised.  This is how fucking ignorant you are, you
don't even know the libertarian position and still you claim you know all
about it .
  You are far closer to fascism than I ever was.  Suck it bitch.
 but you evaded the question,
  No I answered it completely, you lying shitbag, despite the fact
that it was too vague
to know what it meant.  You have a complete description of my attitude
to corporations,
citizens, and the relationship between them.  You're just too stupid
to understand it.
 nope, you have provided no means of control over corporations.
  The only thing needed is a prohibition on force and fraud, which
controls the corporations quite nicely.  Sorry liar but you can't get
away
with bullshit like that.
and who enforces that pipe dream?
it cannot be done without government action.
  Even if that were true, (and as discussed I'm an anarchist so I
don't believe
it) the prohibition on force and fraud is quite sufficient "government
action"
to achieve the results you want.
so you are against these quotes.


"We must take from state authority those functions for which it is
incompetent and which it performs badly... I believe the state should
renounce its economic functions, especially those carried out through
monopolies, because the state is incompetent in such matters... We
must put an end to state railways, state postal service and state
insurance."
"hasten the privatization of municipal enterprises."
"We have broken with the practice of persecuting capital."
so your words are empty,
  No shithead what I propose is quite sufficient to prevent forced
labor.
nope. a contract makes it legal under your scenario.
and perhaps a ploy. the only way citizens can control very powerful and
wealthy corporations, are thru government actions. are you for that?
  No I am for anarchy, in part because government actions tend to be
to the disadvantage of people versus powerful and wealth corporations.
If we must have government then I am for the greatest possible
prohibition on force and fraud by government action.  That's what all
libertarians are for if government must exist.
then you are against these statements.

"We must take from state authority those functions for which it is
incompetent and which it performs badly... I believe the state should
renounce its economic functions, especially those carried out through
monopolies, because the state is incompetent in such matters... We
must put an end to state railways, state postal service and state
insurance."
"hasten the privatization of municipal enterprises."
"We have broken with the practice of persecuting capital."
are you for the rights of citizens over
corporations. what that means is, do citizens have the right to
exercise control over corporations?
  Again you haven't said what that actually means.  Do you mean the
government should have control over corporations?  Like in a fascist
system?
 citizens cannot control corporations on their own, and the regulation
of corporations is not fascism.
  No but it's a big part of it.
no it is not. under fascism, corporations have carte blanch.
"We must take from state authority those functions for which it is
incompetent and which it performs badly... I believe the state should
renounce its economic functions"
  By which he meant only that the State shouldn't directly produce
things,
not that it should not control the groups that do.
nope. it states government should not get involved in corporate
matters.
 so far i have not agreed with one position of fascism,
  You believe in the a state do you not?  That's a position of fascism
you agree with.  Along with universal government paid health care,
government pensions, labor laws, tax-paid armies, and so on. Seriously
liar did you not know I would get you on that crap, fucktard?
 the state can be fascist, i am against that. but most states are not
fascist.
  Nevertheless you are for the State and I am not, so you are on this
subject with the facists and I am not.  This is true for over a dozen
things yet you claim I'm a fascist and you're not.
under fascism, corporations reign supreme.
but, libertarians are against government, and are for free
unfettered markets correct?
  Correct, so what?  Fascist aren't.
sure they are. and unfettered free markets are simply corporatism.
yet you have
either agreed with them all,
  So you're claiming I've agree with the fascist position on labor
laws (which
they favor and I don't), government set wage rates (which they favor
and I don't),
tariff (which they favor and I don't), large tax-paid armies (which
they favor and I don't)?
Seriously fucktard who are you trying to kid?  You're nothing but a
sad pathetic liar who
thinks that if he slings enough shit and never learns anything he
won't have to admit
he's a fucking moron who likes coercing people.
 you have sided with much,
  By "much" you mean privatisation and little else.  You sided with
them on
almost every issue.
so far i have shoewn you to be fascist in nature. something that you
are attempting to lie away.
although you are not monolithic, you have
just about agreed with every fascist position i have came at you with.
  Bullshit.
snicker.

you must agree with these statements then.

"We must take from state authority those functions for which it is
incompetent and which it performs badly... I believe the state should
renounce its economic functions, especially those carried out through
monopolies, because the state is incompetent in such matters... We
must put an end to state railways, state postal service and state
insurance."
"hasten the privatization of municipal enterprises."
"We have broken with the practice of persecuting capital."
no labor laws outlawing forced labor, means its legal.
" BTW earn to read moron. "I am for the rights of all individuals,
whether practised individual or collectively"  This obviously
includes the right not to be forced to work."
unless under a contract correct?
  So you can't even remember that I specifically said I was for
outlawing forced labor shithead.  This is how pathetic you are.
You can't even not lie about something that was talked about
in the post you replied to.
excpet under contracts. which can be coerced.
or simply evaded answering the question,
  Nope didn't do that once.
 once you became aware that your positions, are the same as many
fascists position,
  By "many" you appear to mean about 4, one of which (anti-Marxism) is
shared by everyone who rationally examines the evidence.  You on the
other hand side with them on dozens of issues.  Tell me, exactly what
do
you disagree with them on?
its more than 4. and i am against all forms of extremism.
you became very vague,
  No liar I'm quite specific, you're just too stupid to understand it
nope, you are slippery at best.
and could not understand things.
  That's because you didn't state things clearly.  I asked for
clarification
and you dodged.
you cannot answer correctly, because it gives you away.
before you became aware, you were spot on with your answers,
and they were the same positions of the fascists.
  Listen shitbag, you're talking to me about my own positions and
lying
about it.  The positions I "share" with the fascists are anti-
Marxism.  Wait
that's only one position.  That the fascists SOMETIMES do some things
that libertarians believe are good while doing masses of things they
think
are bad hardly proves that they are the same.  Particularly when you
consider
that fascists do a lot of things for political convenience and
support.
yet you type flocks to the fascists.
which casts a shadow of a doubt of your true beliefs.
 are you pro free market?
  Yes, unlike the fascists.
 reallly, the norwegian shooter was pro free markets.
  You've given no evidence of that beyond that he agreed with someone
who claimed to be free market on subjects other than free markets.
snicker. its in his manifisto.
 are you anti-marxist?
  Yes, aren't you?
 really, the norwegian shooter was anti-marxist. i am against all
forms of extremism.
   Yeah fucktard dodge the question.  You're not at all against
extremism,
you're an extremist yourself.
nope, you agree with him, then try to turn it on me. nice try. but
you got caught again.
are you anti-big government?
  Yes unlike the fascists.
 the norwegian shooter was anti-big government.
  I doubt that very much since he was a neo-Nazi and therefore by
definition
in favor of a regime that was massively big government.
nope. it was stated in his writings.
 you keep agreeing with these monsters,
  And you agree with them more.  In any case why should agreeing with
them on
some issues mean I'm a fascist?  By that standard you're one too.> and you wonder why we view
you, as we do:)))
i do not agree with them. but you do:))))
Michael Price
2011-08-02 08:33:44 UTC
Permalink
 ok, so far you have agreed much with fascism, and you have done it in
public, here it is,
  So far I have agreed with privatisation, which as discussed before
is what
SOME fascists do SOME of the time.
 privatization was a cornerstone of fascist economic policy, and the
minute they assumed power, they instituted privatization. something
you agree with, i do not.
  No privatisation is not the "cornerstone" of fascist policy massive
government spending is.
That you're utterly ignorant of this doesn't suprise me.  Nor does it
suprise me that you
simply asserted something without any effort to prove or even define
it.
 i have supplied credible, verifiable evidence,
  No fucktard you haven't.
 liar.
Sorry child raper it's true.
that points out
privatization was one of the cornerstones of fascism,
  No liar, you've pointed out that some fascists do it sometimes.
 liar.
Nope that's what you've proved.
and that those
stated policies were immediately instituted once they gained power.
  In some cases liar.
 liar.
Nope that's what you've proved.
now you can back up your lie with verifiable, credible, sources and
cites,
  You claimed that privatisation was a "cornerstone" of fascist
economic
policy.  Prove it.  Don't just prove that it's something they
sometimes do.
 beyond lying.
Yes you are child raper.
that the fascists did not have privatization high on their
agenda.
  You made the claim you support it.  That they did it sometimes is
not proof it was "high on their agenda" indeed it doesn't prove it was
on their
agenda at all.  Fascist governments generally come to power during
financial
crises when governments need to raise money.  Privatisation is one way
to
raise money.
 they instituted privatization immediately, and made it a high
priority liar.
None of this proves that it was "high on their agenda". You are
asked for
proof and keep repeating the same shit that doesn't prove what you
claim.
So stop raping children and lying.
  I do not agree with "much" of
fascism in fact I agree with less of it than you do.  Count up how
much
you agree with fascism on 1) government funding of primary, secondardy
and tertiary education, 2) Government paying for most of the health
care, 3) government handling negotiations between employers and
employees,
4) medical licensing.  Now maybe you don't agree with the fascists on
all of
these but I bet you do, and that's ALREADY more than I agree with them
on.
 none of that is fascism.
  All of it is fascist policies that you agree with and I don't.  So
far you're in
far closer agreement to fascists than I am.
 none of it is fascist.
  Yes fucktard it is all fascist policy that you agree with..
 none of it is fascist.
Oh fuck off child raper, look up what fascism actually is.
 so then you do not agree with these statements correct?
"We must take from state authority those functions for which it is
incompetent and which it performs badly... I believe the state should 
> renounce its economic functions, especially those carried out through 
> monopolies, because the state is incompetent in such matters... We 
> must put an end to state railways, state postal service and state 
> insurance." 
> "hasten the privatization of municipal enterprises." 
>  "We have broken with the practice of persecuting capital."
  I agree with them.  They are not however really part of fascist
ideology,
they are simply things some fascists did for political support.  The
fascists
persecuted capital quite a bit.
 that is a lie. once in power, they instituted said policies
immediately.
  What policies?  Are you seriously claimign that there wasn't a state
railway under fascism?  Or a state
mail service?  The state under fascism does a hell of a lot for which
it is incompetent, including controlling
the majority of the economy.
 this is why i consider you insane.
  So you consider me insane because you disagree with me and you can't
refute me.
 i have repeatedly shown you empirical evidence, you come back and say
i have not shown you. which means you are a certifiable serial liar.
http://www.spiritone.com/~gdy52150/chpt1.htm
In various speeches made shortly after the March on Rome, Mussolini
stated,
<snip>
  You're not allowed to use fascist speechs as though they were
evidence of
what fascists actually do.  It's too retarded to be worth responding
to.
 but they did it. you cannot move the goal posts. they actually did
it. so quite lying.
Not lying fucktard child raper, just asking that you prove that
privatisation
is a "cornerstone" of facist economic theory.
 then you do not agree with privatization either correct?
  I agree with privatization, but again that is not a defined part of
fascist policy, it's simply a policy some fascists did sometimes.
 that is a lie also. once in power, they instituted said polices
immediately.
  By "immediately" you presumably mean "after 2 years of the economy
going to hell when
they had no choice".  At least that's what happened in Chile.
http://www.spiritone.com/~gdy52150/chpt1.htm
In various speeches made shortly after the March on Rome, Mussolini
stated, "We must take from state authority those functions for which
it is incompetent and which it performs badly... I believe the state
should renounce its economic functions, especially those carried out
through monopolies, because the state is incompetent in such
matters... We must put an end to state railways, state postal service
and state insurance." The state returned large monopolies to the
private sector after returning them to profitability such as the
Consortium of Match Manufactures, privatized the insurance system in
1923, the telephone system in 1925, and many of the public works.
In Germany the Nazis announced they would end nationalization of
private industries when they seized power. In 1932, Hitler returned
control of the Gelsenkirhen company to private hands and in 1936
returned the stock of "United Steel" to private hands. Throughout
1933-1936, the Nazi returned to private hands the control of several
banks: Dresdner, Danat, Commerz and Privatbank, the Deutsche Bank, and
several others. In 1936, the steamship company Deutcher Schiff and
Maschinenbau was returned to the private sector. In 1934, Dr. Schacht,
the Nazi Minister of Economy, gave instructions to hasten the
privatization of municipal enterprises. These enterprises were
especially coveted by the rich industrialists, as they had been
prosperous even during the depression.
  Right so they did things to gain support, IN ONE INSTANCE.  I note
you don't talk about Pinochet in this context.  You keep claiming that
a shared desire to privatise makes fascism and libertarianism
"identical"
which means you don't think that a difference in say, government
spending
of 30% of GDP compared to 5% is signfiicant.  Which means you're
insane.
 you cannot muddy this.
Don't want to child raper.
the fascist had privatization high on their
agenda. and they instituted it right away. you keep going to pinochet,
you do know he was a fascist correct?
Yeah and yet he doesn't seem to have privatised all that much, nor
taken
libertarian advice until his country went broke. See how that works
child raper? You seem to think that having 5% rather than 30% of the
economy
run by the government is trivial but that's because you're a loony
tune child raper.
 then you do believe that the wealthy should pay their fair share in a
progressive income tax correct?
  No I don't believe anyone should pay any taxes.  Yet another
difference
between fascists and libertarians.
 fascism is not monolithic.
  But all fascists believe people should pay taxes shithead.  I don't
therefore
I AM NOT A FASCIST.  Fascists believe in increasing state power, I
believe in
eliminating it.
 fascism is not monolithic,
  If fascism means anything at all it means support of a State.  Get
it through
your moronic head, fascism is fairly well defined and your attempt to
reduce
that definition to "likes privatisation" is an evil, stupid,
incompetent attempt
at propagandistic douchebaggery.
and nether is libertarianism, but they
share many of the same traits, enough so that its hard to tell the two
apart.
  So you can't tell them apart despite the differences in views on
government spending, censorship,, war, imperialism, gay rights,
medical
licensing, roads, government reglation of business, social groups,
foreign
policy, government funding of research, government funding of medical
care,
government subsidies, tariffs, racial quotas, import quotas?  If with
all this
you find it hard to tell them apart then you're a fucking retard.  And
I appologize
to the retarded people for implying they could be as stupid as you.
 but, in the end, corporations will rule supreme.
Claim without evidence rejected.
because you are
against citizens being able to use government, to control the super
wealthy and powerful.
Yeah fucktard because that worked out so fucking well.
but under fascism, taxes went down
severely for the wealthy and powerful.
  But they still existed and would continue to exist until the fascist
regime was overthrown,
therefore I am not a fascist.
fascism is not monolithic, and nether is libertarianism, but they
share many of the same traits, enough so that its hard to tell the two
apart.
  Only for people who don't care about anything but crushing any
opposition
to their evil desires for fascist dicatorship, like you for instance.
 yet you use von mises as your empirical evidence. he worked for the
fascists.
So what? You keep pretending that this indicates anything just like
you keep claiming that your 12 year old girlfriend consented.
 then you do not believe that business should be regulation free
correct?
  Fascists never believed that and certainly never put it into
practice.
 sure they did.
"We must take from state authority those functions for which it is
incompetent and which it performs badly... I believe the state should
renounce its economic functions"
  Hey shithead, party political statements are not proof, or even
good evidence.
 proof, i have shown you repeatedly.
  No you haven't, you've just lied and thought I wouldn't notice.
 liar.
Claim without evidence.
 you must believe then that the state has no right to interfere in
economic functions correct?
  Yep, and that seperates me from the fascists.  The fascists had
whole ministries devoted to interfering int he economic functions
of every person, corporation, union, and gold club in their country.
That you are ignorant of this would astound me if I didn't already
know you think NORTH KOREA is a free market economy.
 they interfered only when a corporation wanted them to.
  Right, so corporatiosn wanted them to force them to loan the
government
money that would never be paid back.  In any case even if they only
interferred when a corporation wanted them to that's still a massive
difference between their position and mine.  So fuck off shithead
caught you
lying again.
otherwise,
the corporation ran free to do as they pleased. so you are4 a admitted
corporatists, a fascist.
 No fucktard, fascists are pro-interfering in the economy, I'm anti.
You're pro.
 then you are against citizens being able to use government to control
the super wealthy and powerful correct?
I'm against anyone being able to use the government to control
anyone,
including the super wealthy and powerful using it to control the
citizens. This
of course happens far more often than the reverse, just like you
raping children
happens more often than you being honest.
 then you also believe in fair and free elections correct?
  No I don't believe in any elections, I'm an anarchist.  Minarchists
tend to believe
in fair and free elections, but they're only part of libertarianism.
  So far you've claimed that fascism and libertarianism are
"identical" (your word)
and yet the only similarities are that some fascists privatise and
fascists sometimes
claim to be against regulation.  In fact though regulation of
business
under all fascist
regimes was intense.
  Sorry liar but one thing that fascists sometimes do and one thing
they claim to do
but generally don't doesn't make them "identical" to libertarianism.
You know this
which is why you don't address things like tariffs, currency
controls,
gay rights, etc.
when you're talking about fascism and libertarianism being
"identical". You know that
to discuss them would be to admit you're lying.
 now are you for allowing labor unions?
  When did I say that I was against allowing labour unions retard?
 i am asking a questions. are you for the rights of labor unions, to
have some control over corporations?
  If you say "are you now" that implies I was ever against it.
Support
that implication or withdraw it.
  I note that you're now asking a totally different question because
you
know you can't support your previous implication.
 nope, if free independent labor unions exist, they will have some
control over a corporations policies.
  No they have some control over the actions of their members.  The
actions of the corporations are still under the total control of the
boards. The boards will no doubt make decisions based on the actions
of the unions either actual or potential, but this is not unions
"having some control over a corporation".  This is how stupid you are, you
don't even know when you're changing the question.
 if a union has some control over corporations, it means they are
pushing the corporation into a more pro citizen stance.
It means nothing of the kind, in fact unions often push corporations
into
stances that are very much anti-some citizens, (e.g. black citizens in
South Africa).
you simply evaded the question.
No shithead I answered it, you're just too busy raping children to
understand the answer.
do you favor free independent
labor unions, that can have the power to affect corporate policies?
  Again, changing the question.  Anyone can affect corporate policies
by trading or not trading with corporations.  Given I'm a libertarian
of course I support the right of people to trade or not trade freely
with corporations.  That you think you're catching me out on this
simply illustrates that you know fuck all about libertarianism.
 but i caught you. citizens on their own cannot change corporate
behavior.
No pedophile you didn't catch me, you simply made an unsupported
claim and tried to claim I'm a liar for not believing it.
gigantic corporations are so well spread out, that there is
no was except thru their governments, which you are against. fascist
in nature:)))))
Yeah, pedophile keep it up.
 are you for environmental regulations?
  Are you?  Because that's something you'd have in common with
fascists.
 when you dodge a question like that, it casts a shadow over you, one
can then extrapolate, that you are against environmental laws correct?
  If you really did extrapolate that then you would have to know I am
not a fascist since they are in favor of environment laws.
 nice dodge.
  Yes you did dodge nicely.
 nope, i am simply pinning jello to the wall.
Oh give it up pedophile, I simply pointed out your dishonesty.
pinochet let chile become one of the worst polluted
countries in the world.
  Well yes, but he was still in favor of environmental laws.  So was
Hitler.
You're trying to imply that anti-environmentalism is a fascist and
libertarian
position, but in reality fascists are often pro-environment.
 snicker. you really are a stupid liar.
Yeah calling me a liar without any evidence I'm even wrong let alone
lying isn't
convincing, child raper.
libertarians fight environmental laws in america. are you for or against them?
  Which laws?  You're trying to pretend that I'm a fascist if I don't
want to give up
responsibility for the environment to the government, despite the fact
that
fascist want government to have that responsibility.
  Libertarians generally want the enviroment protected by enforcement
of private
property rights.  Is that "
 then you are for carte blanch for corporations in the environmental
arena. that is what i see.
No moron I'm not and nothing I said could be interpreted to mean
that
if you were honest child raper.
 its called corporatism:)))))))
 are you for labor laws?
  Nope, other than the usual law that you're not allowed to defraud
your employer or employees.
  then you are for forced labor,
  I don't consider "You're not allowed to initiate force" to be a
"labor law",
which means I don't consider banning forced labor to be a labor law.
ROTFLOL!!!!!!!!!!!!! if there is no law against it, its legal.
  Oh shithead, you really are fucking stupid.  What I said was that I
don't
consider the law against forced labor to be a labor law, I didn't say
it
shouldn't be a law.  Fuck you're retarded.
 if it involves labor, its a labor law. caught you again:)
No child raper you didn't, you "caught' me using a different
definition of
the term "labor law" and now I'm using yours, but this is the best you
can do isn't it pedophile?
you are for forced labor:))))))))))
  No shithead I'm just not for calling the law against
 caught you again. no law, then its legal:)))))))
No liar you didn't. I didn't say no law, just not for calling it a
labor law.
Sorry child raper your lie didn't work.
So
great by your definition I am for "labor laws".  Great another thing
we
BOTH have in common with the fascists.  But nice try claiming I'm
in favor of forced labor because of some definition chopping you
scumbag.
 you just agreed with no labor laws on forced labor, scumbag.
  No shithead I didn't.  In fact if you read what I wrote I said that
if we're going to call the law against forced labor a "labor law"
then I'm for "labor laws" by that definition, which means I'm for
banning forced labor.
 well its about time. me thinks you are only agreeing, after i have
carefully forced your position.
No shithead you didn't force my position you deliberately
misinterpreted
it. Sorry fucktard but I made my position clear to anyone honest and
rational
last post.
and child labor,
  I am for allowing the government to control what consensual trades
of labor
for money, goods and/or services happen between children and adults if
that's
what you mean.  Note yet again you're on the facists side of the
argument.
 so you are against child labor????
  Sorry that should have been
"I am NOT for allowing the government to control what consensual
trades
of labor for money, goods and/or services happen between children and
adults if
that'swhat you mean.  Note yet again you're on the facists side of the
argument.
 then you are for child labor. the fascists were also.
I am for not forcing children to starve, or be forced into
prostitution. The fascists
no doubt had restrictions on who could employ child labor, so again
you're on their
side.
fascists used forced labor, and
chile labor, which i am firmly against, and it looks like you embrace
part of that scenario.
  You are all for forced labor and fascists had child labor laws,
which I am against.  Yet again, you're on the fascist side.
 fascist had window dressing for stupid and gullible people.
They had lots of labor laws, this is a fact, it directly
contradicts
your claim.
but they
used child labor, and forced labor, as do the communists, and
libertarians.
And yet you can't find a single instance of libertarians using
forced labor.
?> they were all> hallmarks of fascist ideology. without labor laws, you have communist
china:)))))
  Communist China has a hell of a lot of labor laws as you just
defined them.
 any tin horn conservative/libertarian/fascist/communist
dictatorships, have lots of propaganda devises. but are the laws
enforced, i doubt it.
  So fucktard you just admitted that you lied about Communist China
not having labor laws.  So fuck off.  As for the laws not being enforced,
they are very much enforced, try to get a job in the city without a
residence
permit if you doubt me.  No doubt it can be done with money but any
time the Party wants to send you to jail it can.
 you are to stupid to understand propaganda.
I understand it, that's why you'rs doesn't work on me.
 are you for the rights of corporations, over its workers?
  What does that even mean?  I am for the rights of all individuals,
whether practised individual or collectively via groups like
corporations or
unions (note limited liability is not such a right).  You're so
fucking ignorant
of my position you don't even know what you're criticising.
 i am merely asking you questions.
 You are asking questions that don't mean anything.
 you mean you will not answer.
  No I already did answer.
do corporations have rights over their workers?
  Any rights that the workers agreed to by legitimate contract
they have over their workers, and vice versa.  Really are you so
ignorant you don't know standard libertarian beliefs?  Yet you
claim to know so much about us don't you fucktard?
 i understand them completely. its why you keep sticking your foot
into your mouth.
without labor laws, corporations
institute forced labor,
  When did this happen?  What situation without "labor laws"
defined in the usual way resulted in corporations instituting forced
labor?  In fact the places where corporations instituted forced labor
had lots of labor laws, especially the fascist ones.
 does not mean they are enforced.
  So your claim was a lie, there never was the situation that you
claimed
happened.  In any case labor laws were often enforced in fascist
regimes.
You seem to think that enforcing labor laws is something corporations
don't
want and that benefits the worker.  Neither is neccesarily the case.
 snicker. if forced labor was used, and it was in a gigantic way, then
any laws against it, were a farce.
I didn't say they weren't a farce, nor did I say they forbid forced
labor.
I merely observed that there were plenty of labor laws in fascist
regimes,
sorry shitbag but you were wrong AGAIN.
but you are to stupid to understand that. but you do embrace forced labor,
Hey shitbad I repeatedly told you I didn't. Now fuck off you child
raper.
and child labor. if a worker is
desperate, they will accept a contract stating forced labor is ok, you
even endorse it.
Oh fucktard how can you not understand what a fucking contract is?
the soviet union had a constitution
that nobody paid attention to. it was a prop for the gullible.
corporations are using forced labor every day in many parts of asia.
  No doubt, but that doesn't mean that labor laws aren't being
enforced.
 liar. in a libertarian society, the wealthy and powerful do as they
please.
Claim without evidence ignored.
  BTW earn to read moron. "I am for the rights of all individuals,
whether practised individual or collectively"  This obviously
includes the right not to be forced to work.
 its about time. then you are for tough labor laws outlawing forced
labor correct?
  Well I don't call that a "tough labor law" but yes.  Could you now
go
back and retract the bullshit claim that I am for forced labor you
dishonest
pathetic little man.
 but you just said that any contract a corporation has with its
workers, then you would not interfere. if a corporation finds
desperate uneducated workers who will sign a contract allowing forced
or child labor,
Oh fucktard how can you not know that contracts by definition can't
be
forced. Seriously you get more ignorant every post.
you are against government interfering with said
contracts. so you cannot be against something that you would allow.
sounds fascist in nature to me.
That's because you're insane.
and child labor. so are you for the rights of
citizens, to have a say over how corporations operate?
  If by that you mean should the citizens be allowed to forbid them
for using force or fraud then yes of course, it's a fundamental
libertarian principle that nobody should be allowed to use force
or fraud.  That you are ignorant of that and yet claim to know what
libertarianism is simply shows what a stupid scumbag you are.
 libertarianism is not monolithic.
  The prohibition of force and fraud is universal amoung libertarians,
fucktard.  That you claim not to know this disqualifies you from
commenting on libertarianism.
 with no way to enforce fraud laws, you are the fraud.
Yeah moron because without a welfare state there's no way to enforce
fraud
laws. Listen up shithead, laws against fraud were enforced without a
state and
if you knew anything about anarcho-capitalism you'd know that was
true.
in america, many libertarians favor
corporate rights, over citizen rights.
 Really? And how are these "citizen rights" defined by you?  You've
made an unsupported and undefinable claim and you expect it to be
taken seriously.
 snicker. the koch brothers.
Wow, you mentioned some libertarians, that totally answers my
question
fucktard.
  Of course that might not be what the question means.  So clarify,
what does it mean?  Who are "the cititzens" and what does it mean
for them to "have a say"?  Do you mean "the government" "has a say"?
 yes. government represents its citizens.
  So in other words you want the governement (not the citizens) to
have a say in how corporations are run, which is the fascist position.  Yet again
you are with the fascists.
 control of corporations to benefit citizens is not fascism. this is
fascism.
So in other words it's fascism if the control of corporations
"benefits citizens"
(defined by you) but not if it doesn't.
And by "have a say" do you mean "can override any decision" without
accountability to the corporation"?  Because If you do, and I suspect
you do, you're the one who's closer to the fascists.
 fascism did not allow citizen control of corporations at all.
  They allowed (indeed mandated) considerable control over
corporations by government so by your definition they did allow "citizen control".
Seriously how do you not know that there were thousands of people in every
fascist regime who ran regulations that controlled corporations?
 fascist governments do not represent their citizens.
I see so it's only governments you like that "represent their
citizens". So anyone I ask
again, do you not know that fascists had thousands of people who ran
regulations
who controlled corporations?
the only way to control corporations is thru government action, otherwise
citizens cannot control corporations on their own, its impossible.
  So you've never heard of not buying something, moron?
are you for the rights of corporations over governments?
  I am for the rights of anyone over governments because the rights
of
govenrments do not exist.  In any case when did fascists champion the
rights of corporations over govenrment?  Seriously you have no idea
what
fascism is.  Fascism by definition holds the rights of the government
supreme.
http://www.brainyquote.com/quotes/authors/b/benito_mussolini.html
Fascism should more appropriately be called Corporatism because it is
a merger of state and corporate power.
Benito Mussolini
  Yeah shit for brains try to pretend that means corporations have
power and
the government doesn't control them.  The problem is that fascists
always
excercise complete control of the corporations.
 yea, its why so many of them flocked to the fascists. they had carte
blanche.
    Learn to wikipedia bitch.
An inherent aspect of fascist economies was economic dirigisme,[3]
meaning an economy where the government exerts strong directive
influence, and effectively controls production and allocation of
resources. In general, apart from the nationalizations of some
industries, fascist economies were based on private property and
private initiative, but these were contingent upon service to the
state.[4]
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Economics_of_fascism#General_characteris...
are you for the rights of citizens over corporations.
  Again, what does this mean?  I am for the rights of all people,
citizens and noncitizens (the distinction being purely arbitrary) whether
individually or collectively exercised.  This is how fucking ignorant you are, you
don't even know the libertarian position and still you claim you know all
about it .
  You are far closer to fascism than I ever was.  Suck it bitch.
 but you evaded the question,
  No I answered it completely, you lying shitbag, despite the fact
that it was too vague
to know what it meant.  You have a complete description of my attitude
to corporations,
citizens, and the relationship between them.  You're just too stupid
to understand it.
 nope, you have provided no means of control over corporations.
  The only thing needed is a prohibition on force and fraud, which
controls the corporations quite nicely.  Sorry liar but you can't get
away with bullshit like that.
 and who enforces that pipe dream?
Oh god, read something shithead. I mean fucktard if anyone can
enforce your fucking retarded desires why can't they enforce my
far more modest requirements? Of course you don't even know
what anarcho-capitalism is, let alone libertarianism or fascism
or even what a contract is.
it cannot be done without government action.
  Even if that were true, (and as discussed I'm an anarchist so I
don't believe
it) the prohibition on force and fraud is quite sufficient "government
action"
to achieve the results you want.
 so you are against these quotes.
You're not allowed to quote fascists political statements, you
can't
be trusted to do it honestly.
so your words are empty,
  No shithead what I propose is quite sufficient to prevent forced
labor.
 nope. a contract makes it legal under your scenario.
Sorry shithead but by definition forcing someone isn't a contract
and
you voids any contract. How fucking ignorant are you?
and perhaps a ploy. the only way citizens can control very powerful and
wealthy corporations, are thru government actions. are you for that?
  No I am for anarchy, in part because government actions tend to be
to the disadvantage of people versus powerful and wealth corporations.
If we must have government then I am for the greatest possible
prohibition on force and fraud by government action.  That's what all
libertarians are for if government must exist.
 then you are against these statements.
I told you, you're not allowed to quote political party statements,
you can't
be trusted to do it honestly.
are you for the rights of citizens over
corporations. what that means is, do citizens have the right to
exercise control over corporations?
  Again you haven't said what that actually means.  Do you mean the
government should have control over corporations?  Like in a fascist
system?
 citizens cannot control corporations on their own, and the regulation
of corporations is not fascism.
  No but it's a big part of it.
 no it is not. under fascism, corporations have carte blanch.
Yeah you keep making shit up. Look up the definition of fascism you
used you
lying shithead.
"We must take from state authority those functions for which it is
incompetent and which it performs badly... I believe the state should
renounce its economic functions"
  By which he meant only that the State shouldn't directly produce
things, not that it should not control the groups that do.
 nope. it states government should not get involved in corporate
matters.
Yeah and the fascist only had thousands of people who got involved
in
corporate matters. Seriously how did you not know that fascism has
massive control of the economy? Hell it's in the fucking definition
you
moron.
 so far i have not agreed with one position of fascism,
  You believe in the a state do you not?  That's a position of fascism
you agree with.  Along with universal government paid health care,
government pensions, labor laws, tax-paid armies, and so on. Seriously
liar did you not know I would get you on that crap, fucktard?
 the state can be fascist, i am against that. but most states are not
fascist.
  Nevertheless you are for the State and I am not, so you are on this
subject with the facists and I am not.  This is true for over a dozen
things yet you claim I'm a fascist and you're not.
<Shit that doesn't address the point snipped>
but, libertarians are against government, and are for free
unfettered markets correct?
  Correct, so what?  Fascist aren't.
 sure they are. and unfettered free markets are simply corporatism.
Of for fuck's sake read up about what fascism is. It is SPECIFICALLY
a form
of totalitarianism that includes strong government control of the
economy.
yet you have
either agreed with them all,
  So you're claiming I've agree with the fascist position on labor
laws (which
they favor and I don't), government set wage rates (which they favor
and I don't),
tariff (which they favor and I don't), large tax-paid armies (which
they favor and I don't)?
Seriously fucktard who are you trying to kid?  You're nothing but a
sad pathetic liar who
thinks that if he slings enough shit and never learns anything he
won't have to admit
he's a fucking moron who likes coercing people.
 you have sided with much,
  By "much" you mean privatisation and little else.  You sided with
them on
almost every issue.
 so far i have shoewn you to be fascist in nature.
No you've just lied about my beliefs while trying vainly to hide
the
enormous similarities between your own beleifs and fascism.
something that you
are attempting to lie away.
although you are not monolithic, you have
just about agreed with every fascist position i have came at you with.
  Bullshit.
 snicker.
Yeah you're lying is no longer funny.
 you must agree with these statements then.
"We must take from state authority those functions for which it is
incompetent and which it performs badly...
Which is certainly not a fascist position as almost everything the
state does under fascism it is incompetent at doing (as libertarians
have shown decades ago).
I believe the state should
renounce its economic functions, especially those carried out through
monopolies,
Yet fascist regimes mainted huge bureaucracies to implement
economic functions, sorry fucktard you're pwned again.
because the state is incompetent in such matters... We
must put an end to state railways, state postal service and state
insurance."
"hasten the privatization of municipal enterprises."
 "We have broken with the practice of persecuting capital."
But as I pointed out they didn't end the practice of persecuting
capital.
What you've showns is that some fascist rhetoric is stuff I would
agree with
if they meant it.
no labor laws outlawing forced labor, means its legal.
" BTW earn to read moron. "I am for the rights of all individuals,
whether practised individual or collectively"  This obviously
includes the right not to be forced to work."
 unless under a contract correct?
Oh wow, so you're saying that people should be allowed to agree to
work
and then violate the contract without legal consquences? That's what
you're
arguing for? No you're not arguing for anything you're just lying
about my
positions.
  So you can't even remember that I specifically said I was for
outlawing forced labor shithead.  This is how pathetic you are.
You can't even not lie about something that was talked about
in the post you replied to.
 excpet under contracts. which can be coerced.
or simply evaded answering the question,
  Nope didn't do that once.
 once you became aware that your positions, are the same as many
fascists position,
  By "many" you appear to mean about 4, one of which (anti-Marxism) is
shared by everyone who rationally examines the evidence.  You on the
other hand side with them on dozens of issues.  Tell me, exactly what
do
you disagree with them on?
 its more than 4.
You've listed no more than 4 and one of them you apparently share,
sorry liar,
you're pwned again.
and i am against all forms of extremism.
Then you're anti-Marxist then? Great so your claim that my anti-
Marxism indicates
fascism is a lie then? Or are you a fascist?
you became very vague,
  No liar I'm quite specific, you're just too stupid to understand it
 nope, you are slippery at best.
Yeah right because the guy who claims that being anti-Marxist shows
I'm a fascist (while not denying being anti-Marxist himself) is not
being
slippery.
and could not understand things.
  That's because you didn't state things clearly.  I asked for
clarification
and you dodged.
 you cannot answer correctly, because it gives you away.
Hey shithead I already answered.
before you became aware, you were spot on with your answers,
and they were the same positions of the fascists.
  Listen shitbag, you're talking to me about my own positions and
lying about it.  The positions I "share" with the fascists are anti-
Marxism.  Wait that's only one position.  That the fascists SOMETIMES do some things
that libertarians believe are good while doing masses of things they
think are bad hardly proves that they are the same.  Particularly when you
consider that fascists do a lot of things for political convenience and
support.
 yet you type flocks to the fascists.
Fuck off when did I flock to anything like it?
which casts a shadow of a doubt of your true beliefs.
 are you pro free market?
  Yes, unlike the fascists.
 reallly, the norwegian shooter was pro free markets.
  You've given no evidence of that beyond that he agreed with someone
who claimed to be free market on subjects other than free markets.
 snicker. its in his manifisto.
Where in his manifesto shithead? Seriously retard you think anyone
will take your
word for it?
 are you anti-marxist?
  Yes, aren't you?
 really, the norwegian shooter was anti-marxist. i am against all
forms of extremism.
   Yeah fucktard dodge the question.  You're not at all against
extremism, you're an extremist yourself.
 nope, you agree with him, then try to turn it on me. nice try. but
you got caught again.
So because I agree with him on something you DON'T DENY YOU SHARE
I'm a fascist? Fuck off loser, this is the best you've got. By your
standard Dennis
Kucinich is a fascist.
are you anti-big government?
  Yes unlike the fascists.
 the norwegian shooter was anti-big government.
  I doubt that very much since he was a neo-Nazi and therefore by
definition
in favor of a regime that was massively big government.
 nope. it was stated in his writings.
And yet you expect me to believe you without evidence despite
repeatedly lying to me
in the past. If you have evidence present it.
 you keep agreeing with these monsters,
  And you agree with them more.  In any case why should agreeing with
them on
some issues mean I'm a fascist?  By that standard you're one too.> and you wonder why we view
you, as we do:)))
 i do not agree with them. but you do:))))
Sorry shithead but you do agree with them, on almost everything.
Nickname unavailable
2011-07-29 16:35:27 UTC
Permalink
 ok, so far you have agreed much with fascism, and you have done it in
public, here it is,
  So far I have agreed with privatisation, which as discussed before
is what
SOME fascists do SOME of the time.
 privatization was a cornerstone of fascist economic policy, and the
minute they assumed power, they instituted privatization. something
you agree with, i do not.
  No privatisation is not the "cornerstone" of fascist policy massive
government spending is.
That you're utterly ignorant of this doesn't suprise me.  Nor does it
suprise me that you
simply asserted something without any effort to prove or even define
it.
that is a lie, one of the first things the fascist did, was to
privatize. you have your own crank opinion, i have empirical evidence.
you will say prove it over and over again, and i do, here it is again.



hitler made it urgent, that privatization was to be instituted.


http://www.spiritone.com/~gdy52150/chpt1.htm

In Germany the Nazis announced they would end nationalization of
private industries when they seized power. In 1932, Hitler returned
control of the Gelsenkirhen company to private hands and in 1936
returned the stock of "United Steel" to private hands. Throughout
1933-1936, the Nazi returned to private hands the control of several
banks: Dresdner, Danat, Commerz and Privatbank, the Deutsche Bank, and
several others. In 1936, the steamship company Deutcher Schiff and
Maschinenbau was returned to the private sector. In 1934, Dr. Schacht,
the Nazi Minister of Economy, gave instructions to hasten the
privatization of municipal enterprises. These enterprises were
especially coveted by the rich industrialists, as they had been
prosperous even during the depression.



you simply are a serial liar, that gets shown empirical evidence, and
you either ignore it, or you cannot understand it. you are either a
stupid schmuck, or a habitual liar.
  I do not agree with "much" of
fascism in fact I agree with less of it than you do.  Count up how
much
you agree with fascism on 1) government funding of primary, secondardy
and tertiary education, 2) Government paying for most of the health
care, 3) government handling negotiations between employers and
employees,
4) medical licensing.  Now maybe you don't agree with the fascists on
all of
these but I bet you do, and that's ALREADY more than I agree with them
on.
 none of that is fascism.
  All of it is fascist policies that you agree with and I don't.  So
far you're in
far closer agreement to fascists than I am.
none of it is fascist. you are a habitual liar, or a stupid schmuck.
 so then you do not agree with these statements correct?
"We must take from state authority those functions for which it is
incompetent and which it performs badly... I believe the state should 
> renounce its economic functions, especially those carried out through 
> monopolies, because the state is incompetent in such matters... We 
> must put an end to state railways, state postal service and state 
> insurance." 
> "hasten the privatization of municipal enterprises." 
>  "We have broken with the practice of persecuting capital."
  I agree with them.  They are not however really part of fascist
ideology,
they are simply things some fascists did for political support.  The
fascists
persecuted capital quite a bit.
 that is a lie. once in power, they instituted said policies
immediately.
  What policies?  Are you seriously claimign that there wasn't a state
railway under fascism?  Or a state
mail service?  The state under fascism does a hell of a lot for which
it is incompetent, including controlling
the majority of the economy.
you are beyond stupid. you are a habitual liar.

http://www.spiritone.com/~gdy52150/chpt1.htm

In Germany the Nazis announced they would end nationalization of
private industries when they seized power. In 1932, Hitler returned
control of the Gelsenkirhen company to private hands and in 1936
returned the stock of "United Steel" to private hands. Throughout
1933-1936, the Nazi returned to private hands the control of several
banks: Dresdner, Danat, Commerz and Privatbank, the Deutsche Bank, and
several others. In 1936, the steamship company Deutcher Schiff and
Maschinenbau was returned to the private sector. In 1934, Dr. Schacht,
the Nazi Minister of Economy, gave instructions to hasten the
privatization of municipal enterprises. These enterprises were
especially coveted by the rich industrialists, as they had been
prosperous even during the depression.
 then you do not agree with privatization either correct?
  I agree with privatization, but again that is not a defined part of
fascist policy, it's simply a policy some fascists did sometimes.
 that is a lie also. once in power, they instituted said polices
immediately.
  By "immediately" you presumably mean "after 2 years of the economy
going to hell when
they had no choice".  At least that's what happened in Chile.
snicker, chile went into a free fall under the fascist pinochit.
which you seem to embrace i see:)


http://www.spiritone.com/~gdy52150/chpt1.htm

In Germany the Nazis announced they would end nationalization of
private industries when they seized power. In 1932, Hitler returned
control of the Gelsenkirhen company to private hands and in 1936
returned the stock of "United Steel" to private hands. Throughout
1933-1936, the Nazi returned to private hands the control of several
banks: Dresdner, Danat, Commerz and Privatbank, the Deutsche Bank, and
several others. In 1936, the steamship company Deutcher Schiff and
Maschinenbau was returned to the private sector. In 1934, Dr. Schacht,
the Nazi Minister of Economy, gave instructions to hasten the
privatization of municipal enterprises. These enterprises were
especially coveted by the rich industrialists, as they had been
prosperous even during the depression.
 then you do believe that the wealthy should pay their fair share in a
progressive income tax correct?
  No I don't believe anyone should pay any taxes.  Yet another
difference
between fascists and libertarians.
 fascism is not monolithic.
  But all fascists believe people should pay taxes shithead.  I don't
therefore
I AM NOT A FASCIST.  Fascists believe in increasing state power, I
believe in
eliminating it.
do you know what monolithic even means, doubt it.
but under fascism, taxes went down
severely for the wealthy and powerful.
  But they still existed and would continue to exist until the fascist
regime was overthrown,
therefore I am not a fascist.
you are not monolithic. but you embrace lots of fascist policies. you
are what you are.
 then you do not believe that business should be regulation free
correct?
  Fascists never believed that and certainly never put it into
practice.
 sure they did.
"We must take from state authority those functions for which it is
incompetent and which it performs badly... I believe the state should
renounce its economic functions"
  Hey shithead, party political statements are not proof, or even
good evidence.
http://www.spiritone.com/~gdy52150/chpt1.htm

In Germany the Nazis announced they would end nationalization of
private industries when they seized power. In 1932, Hitler returned
control of the Gelsenkirhen company to private hands and in 1936
returned the stock of "United Steel" to private hands. Throughout
1933-1936, the Nazi returned to private hands the control of several
banks: Dresdner, Danat, Commerz and Privatbank, the Deutsche Bank, and
several others. In 1936, the steamship company Deutcher Schiff and
Maschinenbau was returned to the private sector. In 1934, Dr. Schacht,
the Nazi Minister of Economy, gave instructions to hasten the
privatization of municipal enterprises. These enterprises were
especially coveted by the rich industrialists, as they had been
prosperous even during the depression.
 you must believe then that the state has no right to interfere in
economic functions correct?
  Yep, and that seperates me from the fascists.  The fascists had
whole ministries devoted to interfering int he economic functions
of every person, corporation, union, and gold club in their country.
That you are ignorant of this would astound me if I didn't already
know you think NORTH KOREA is a free market economy.
yes north korea has a free trade agreement with the south. i hear
they either have one, or are getting one with china also. libertarians
worked for the fascist. von mises whom you have quoted, worked for
them for years. you cannot lie this away.
 then you also believe in fair and free elections correct?
  No I don't believe in any elections, I'm an anarchist.  Minarchists
tend to believe
in fair and free elections, but they're only part of libertarianism.
  So far you've claimed that fascism and libertarianism are
"identical" (your word)
and yet the only similarities are that some fascists privatise and
fascists sometimes
claim to be against regulation.  In fact though regulation of business
under all fascist
regimes was intense.
  Sorry liar but one thing that fascists sometimes do and one thing
they claim to do
but generally don't doesn't make them "identical" to libertarianism.
You know this
which is why you don't address things like tariffs, currency controls,
gay rights, etc.
when you're talking about fascism and libertarianism being
"identical". You know that
to discuss them would be to admit you're lying.
 now are you for allowing labor unions?
  When did I say that I was against allowing labour unions retard?
 i am asking a questions. are you for the rights of labor unions, to
have some control over corporations?
  If you say "are you now" that implies I was ever against it.
Support
that implication or withdraw it.
  I note that you're now asking a totally different question because
you
know you can't support your previous implication.
nope, you keep moving the goal posts, i simply am adjusting. now you
have not answered my question, so i can only guess you are against
labor unions have some ability to have some control over corporations.
that implies corporatism.
 are you for environmental regulations?
  Are you?  Because that's something you'd have in common with
fascists.
 when you dodge a question like that, it casts a shadow over you, one
can then extrapolate, that you are against environmental laws correct?
  If you really did extrapolate that then you would have to know I am
not
a fascist since they are in favor of environment laws.
environmental laws are not fascism. if you allow corporations to
pollute at will. there is a saying for your type. its called
corporatism.
 are you for labor laws?
  Nope, other than the usual law that you're not allowed to defraud
your employer or employees.
  then you are for forced labor,
  I don't consider "You're not allowed to initiate force" to be a
"labor law",
which means I don't consider banning forced labor to be a labor law.
nice dodge.
So
great by your definition I am for "labor laws".  Great another thing
we
BOTH have in common with the fascists.  But nice try claiming I'm
in favor of forced labor because of some definition chopping you
scumbag.
but you are not for laws outlawing forced labor. that means forced
labor will be legal in your world.
and child labor,
  I am for allowing the government to control what consensual trades
of labor
for money, goods and/or services happen between children and adults if
that's
what you mean.  Note yet again you're on the facists side of the
argument.
fascist allowed child labor. i am dead set against it. so then you
are for labor laws outlawing child labor correct?
?> they were all> hallmarks of fascist ideology. without labor laws, you have communist
china:)))))
  Communist China has a hell of a lot of labor laws as you just
defined them.
window dressing. do they enforce them, nope. gullible people believe
propaganda.
 are you for the rights of corporations, over its workers?
  What does that even mean?  I am for the rights of all individuals,
whether practised individual or collectively via groups like
corporations or
unions (note limited liability is not such a right).  You're so
fucking ignorant
of my position you don't even know what you're criticising.
 i am merely asking you questions.
 You are asking questions that don't mean anything.
nice dodge. which means you are for corporations having carte blanch
over their workers.
without labor laws, corporations
institute forced labor,
  When did this happen?  What situation without "labor laws"
defined in the usual way resulted in corporations instituting forced
labor?  In fact the places where corporations instituted forced labor
had lots of labor laws, especially the fascist ones.
forced labor with window dressing laws, all of the hallmarks of
fascism. but you seem to be against labor laws, funny:))))
  BTW earn to read moron. "I am for the rights of all individuals,
whether practised individual or collectively"  This obviously
includes the right not to be forced to work.
then you would be for strong government enforcement of labor laws
correct?
and child labor. so are you for the rights of
citizens, to have a say over how corporations operate?
  If by that you mean should the citizens be allowed to forbid them
for using force or fraud then yes of course, it's a fundamental
libertarian principle that nobody should be allowed to use force
or fraud.
then you do not agree with the state being forced out of its economic
duties correct?


 That you are ignorant of that and yet claim to know what
libertarianism is simply shows what a stupid scumbag you are.
  Of course that might not be what the question means.  So clarify,
what does it mean?  Who are "the cititzens" and what does it mean
for them to "have a say"?  Do you mean "the government" "has a say"?
And by "have a say" do you mean "can override any decision" without
accountability to the corporation"?  Because If you do, and I suspect
you do, you're the one who's closer to the fascists.
citizens on their own, cannot get gigantic corporations to behave.
citizens collectively use government for that. so you are for
government involvement in the markets then?
are you for the rights of corporations over governments?
  I am for the rights of anyone over governments because the rights
of
govenrments do not exist.  In any case when did fascists champion the
rights of corporations over govenrment?  Seriously you have no idea
what
fascism is.  Fascism by definition holds the rights of the government
supreme.
http://www.brainyquote.com/quotes/authors/b/benito_mussolini.html
Fascism should more appropriately be called Corporatism because it is
a merger of state and corporate power.
Benito Mussolini
  Yeah shit for brains try to pretend that means corporations have
power and
the government doesn't control them.  The problem is that fascists
always
excercise complete control of the corporations.
that is a lie of course.

http://www.spiritone.com/~gdy52150/chpt1.htm

In Germany the Nazis announced they would end nationalization of
private industries when they seized power. In 1932, Hitler returned
control of the Gelsenkirhen company to private hands and in 1936
returned the stock of "United Steel" to private hands. Throughout
1933-1936, the Nazi returned to private hands the control of several
banks: Dresdner, Danat, Commerz and Privatbank, the Deutsche Bank, and
several others. In 1936, the steamship company Deutcher Schiff and
Maschinenbau was returned to the private sector. In 1934, Dr. Schacht,
the Nazi Minister of Economy, gave instructions to hasten the
privatization of municipal enterprises. These enterprises were
especially coveted by the rich industrialists, as they had been
prosperous even during the depression.
are you for the rights of citizens over corporations.
  Again, what does this mean?  I am for the rights of all people,
citizens and noncitizens (the distinction being purely arbitrary) whether
individually or collectively exercised.  This is how fucking ignorant you are, you
don't even know the libertarian position and still you claim you know all
about it .
  You are far closer to fascism than I ever was.  Suck it bitch.
 but you evaded the question,
  No I answered it completely, you lying shitbag, despite the fact
that it was too vague
to know what it meant.  You have a complete description of my attitude
to corporations,
citizens, and the relationship between them.  You're just too stupid
to understand it.
then i can only come to the conclusion that you value corporations
over real live human beings.
are you for the rights of citizens over
corporations. what that means is, do citizens have the right to
exercise control over corporations?
  Again you haven't said what that actually means.  Do you mean the
government should have control over corporations?  Like in a fascist
system?
is it possible that all of this evasion, masks the facts that you do
not believe that citizens should have control over corporations:))))
 so far i have not agreed with one position of fascism,
  You believe in the a state do you not?  That's a position of fascism
you agree with.  Along with universal government paid health care,
government pensions, labor laws, tax-paid armies, and so on. Seriously
liar did you not know I would get you on that crap, fucktard?
the state is not fascist, if it does its duty, and controls super
wealth and power. fascists states allow the free market, to do as it
pleases.
yet you have
either agreed with them all,
  So you're claiming I've agree with the fascist position on labor
laws (which
they favor and I don't),
fascists labor laws favor capital.



government set wage rates (which they favor
and I don't),
so you are for minimum wages? if you do not. then corporations set
the wage. we see that all over asia, millions working for starvation
wages.
tariff (which they favor and I don't),
without tariffs, fascist nations will flood democracies with forced
or slave labor goods. see, you are a tool for them. you are a fascist.


large tax-paid armies (which
they favor and I don't)?
small potato's. in the end, you will demand obedience.
Seriously fucktard who are you trying to kid?  You're nothing but a
sad pathetic liar who
thinks that if he slings enough shit and never learns anything he
won't have to admit
he's a fucking moron who likes coercing people.
so far you have agreed with much that is fascist in nature.
or simply evaded answering the question,
  Nope didn't do that once.
snicker.
which casts a shadow of a doubt of your true beliefs.
 are you pro free market?
  Yes, unlike the fascists.
the norwegain shooter was also. lets remind you again of what the
fascist have said.


In various speeches made shortly after the March on Rome, Mussolini
stated, "We must take from state authority those functions for which
it is incompetent and which it performs badly... I believe the state
should renounce its economic functions, especially those carried out
through monopolies, because the state is incompetent in such
matters... We must put an end to state railways, state postal service
and state insurance." The state returned large monopolies to the
private sector after returning them to profitability such as the
Consortium of Match Manufactures, privatized the insurance system in
1923, the telephone system in 1925, and many of the public works.
 are you anti-marxist?
  Yes, aren't you?
i am anti-extremists of all forms.

the norwegian shooter was anti-marxist:)))))
are you anti-big government?
  Yes unlike the fascists.
the norwegian shooter was anti-big government:)))))))))
Michael Price
2011-08-02 09:09:33 UTC
Permalink
 ok, so far you have agreed much with fascism, and you have done it in
public, here it is,
  So far I have agreed with privatisation, which as discussed before
is what
SOME fascists do SOME of the time.
 privatization was a cornerstone of fascist economic policy, and the
minute they assumed power, they instituted privatization. something
you agree with, i do not.
  No privatisation is not the "cornerstone" of fascist policy massive
government spending is. That you're utterly ignorant of this doesn't suprise me.  Nor does it
suprise me that you simply asserted something without any effort to prove or even define
it.
 that is a lie, one of the first things the fascist did, was to
privatize.
Which doen't prove that it's a "cornerstone" of their economic policy
child raper.
you have your own crank opinion, i have empirical evidence.
No you don't, you have evidence of something other than what you
claim.
you will say prove it over and over again, and i do, here it is again.
 hitler made it urgent, that privatization was to be instituted.
He did it, that doesn't prove it's a "cornerstone" you claim, child
raper.
 you simply are a serial liar, that gets shown empirical evidence,
I have been shown evidence of things other than what you claim. You
have been asked repeatedly for evidence OF YOUR CLAIM.
and you either ignore it, or you cannot understand it. you are either a
stupid schmuck, or a habitual liar.
Sorry child raper you can't convince anyone that you proved what you
say
you proved.
  I do not agree with "much" of
fascism in fact I agree with less of it than you do.  Count up how
much
you agree with fascism on 1) government funding of primary, secondardy
and tertiary education, 2) Government paying for most of the health
care, 3) government handling negotiations between employers and
employees,
4) medical licensing.  Now maybe you don't agree with the fascists on
all of
these but I bet you do, and that's ALREADY more than I agree with them
on.
 none of that is fascism.
  All of it is fascist policies that you agree with and I don't.  So
far you're in
far closer agreement to fascists than I am.
 none of it is fascist. you are a habitual liar, or a stupid schmuck.
Look up what fascism is and does child raper.
 so then you do not agree with these statements correct?
"We must take from state authority those functions for which it is
incompetent and which it performs badly... I believe the state should 
> renounce its economic functions, especially those carried out through 
> monopolies, because the state is incompetent in such matters... We 
> must put an end to state railways, state postal service and state 
> insurance." 
> "hasten the privatization of municipal enterprises." 
>  "We have broken with the practice of persecuting capital."
  I agree with them.  They are not however really part of fascist
ideology,
they are simply things some fascists did for political support.  The
fascists
persecuted capital quite a bit.
 that is a lie. once in power, they instituted said policies
immediately.
  What policies?  Are you seriously claimign that there wasn't a state
railway under fascism?  Or a state
mail service?  The state under fascism does a hell of a lot for which
it is incompetent, including controlling
the majority of the economy.
 you are beyond stupid. you are a habitual liar.
Sorry child raper but you are only allowed to respond to my
actual point.
 then you do not agree with privatization either correct?
  I agree with privatization, but again that is not a defined part of
fascist policy, it's simply a policy some fascists did sometimes.
 that is a lie also. once in power, they instituted said polices
immediately.
  By "immediately" you presumably mean "after 2 years of the economy
going to hell when
they had no choice".  At least that's what happened in Chile.
 snicker, chile went into a free fall under the fascist pinochit.
which you seem to embrace i see:)
Oh fucktard I specifically said that he wasn't libertarian and I
was. What happened, you
catch syphillus from a 12 year old?
 then you do believe that the wealthy should pay their fair share in a
progressive income tax correct?
  No I don't believe anyone should pay any taxes.  Yet another
difference
between fascists and libertarians.
 fascism is not monolithic.
  But all fascists believe people should pay taxes shithead.  I don't
therefore
I AM NOT A FASCIST.  Fascists believe in increasing state power, I
believe in
eliminating it.
 do you know what monolithic even means, doubt it.
Oh fucktard, all fascist believe in taxes, by definition. Now stop
raping
children for long enough to learn what fascism means.
but under fascism, taxes went down
severely for the wealthy and powerful.
  But they still existed and would continue to exist until the fascist
regime was overthrown,
therefore I am not a fascist.
 you are not monolithic.
That doesn't mean that you can claim anyone is a fascist because
they
agree about some things, (like you do). BY DEFINITION a fascist
believes
in taxes child raper.
but you embrace lots of fascist policies.
Less than you child raper.
you
are what you are.
 then you do not believe that business should be regulation free
correct?
  Fascists never believed that and certainly never put it into
practice.
 sure they did.
"We must take from state authority those functions for which it is
incompetent and which it performs badly... I believe the state should
renounce its economic functions"
  Hey shithead, party political statements are not proof, or even
good evidence.
 you must believe then that the state has no right to interfere in
economic functions correct?
  Yep, and that seperates me from the fascists.  The fascists had
whole ministries devoted to interfering int he economic functions
of every person, corporation, union, and gold club in their country.
That you are ignorant of this would astound me if I didn't already
know you think NORTH KOREA is a free market economy.
 yes north korea has a free trade agreement with the south. i hear
they either have one, or are getting one with china also.
Yeah and that matter more than the fact that it's a communist
dictatorship.
libertarians worked for the fascist.
So what?
von mises whom you have quoted, worked for
them for years. you cannot lie this away.
I never attempted to do anything of the kind child raper, I merely
pointed out that this
does not mean that libertarians are fascists, it simply means they
offered advice that
often wasn't taken.
 then you also believe in fair and free elections correct?
  No I don't believe in any elections, I'm an anarchist.  Minarchists
tend to believe
in fair and free elections, but they're only part of libertarianism.
  So far you've claimed that fascism and libertarianism are
"identical" (your word)
and yet the only similarities are that some fascists privatise and
fascists sometimes
claim to be against regulation.  In fact though regulation of business
under all fascist
regimes was intense.
  Sorry liar but one thing that fascists sometimes do and one thing
they claim to do
but generally don't doesn't make them "identical" to libertarianism.
You know this
which is why you don't address things like tariffs, currency controls,
gay rights, etc.
when you're talking about fascism and libertarianism being
"identical". You know that
to discuss them would be to admit you're lying.
 now are you for allowing labor unions?
  When did I say that I was against allowing labour unions retard?
 i am asking a questions. are you for the rights of labor unions, to
have some control over corporations?
  If you say "are you now" that implies I was ever against it.
Support
that implication or withdraw it.
  I note that you're now asking a totally different question because
you
know you can't support your previous implication.
 nope, you keep moving the goal posts,
No child raper I'm not moving anything, support your claim.
i simply am adjusting. now you
have not answered my question, so i can only guess you are against
labor unions have some ability to have some control over corporations.
that implies corporatism.
Sorry child raper but I've already answered this question and you
already misrepresented the answer.
 are you for environmental regulations?
  Are you?  Because that's something you'd have in common with
fascists.
 when you dodge a question like that, it casts a shadow over you, one
can then extrapolate, that you are against environmental laws correct?
  If you really did extrapolate that then you would have to know I am
not a fascist since they are in favor of environment laws.
 environmental laws are not fascism.
Fascists nevertheless favor having environmental laws.
if you allow corporations to pollute at will.
Which is not what I said at all, child raper.
there is a saying for your type. its called
corporatism.
Actually no it's not.
 are you for labor laws?
  Nope, other than the usual law that you're not allowed to defraud
your employer or employees.
  then you are for forced labor,
  I don't consider "You're not allowed to initiate force" to be a
"labor law",
which means I don't consider banning forced labor to be a labor law.
 nice dodge.
No fucktard it's an explanation of why I didn't say that I was for a
labor
law against forced labor. It's not a dodge at all and yet you
continue to
claim I'm for forced labor despite me directly saying I would ban it.
So
great by your definition I am for "labor laws".  Great another thing
we
BOTH have in common with the fascists.  But nice try claiming I'm
in favor of forced labor because of some definition chopping you
scumbag.
 but you are not for laws outlawing forced labor.
Sorry child raper I already directly said I was.
that means forced labor will be legal in your world.
Stop raping children.
and child labor,
  I am for allowing the government to control what consensual trades
of labor
for money, goods and/or services happen between children and adults if
that's
what you mean.  Note yet again you're on the facists side of the
argument.
 fascist allowed child labor. i am dead set against it.
No you're not.
so then you are for labor laws outlawing child labor correct?
Nope, because I don't think I should force children into child
prostitution
by poverty, although I can see how a child rapist like you might be on
the
other side of that issue,
?> they were all> hallmarks of fascist ideology. without labor laws, you have communist
china:)))))
  Communist China has a hell of a lot of labor laws as you just
defined them.
 window dressing. do they enforce them, nope. gullible people believe
propaganda.
Yes they enforce them child raper as I already explained.
 are you for the rights of corporations, over its workers?
  What does that even mean?  I am for the rights of all individuals,
whether practised individual or collectively via groups like
corporations or
unions (note limited liability is not such a right).  You're so
fucking ignorant
of my position you don't even know what you're criticising.
 i am merely asking you questions.
 You are asking questions that don't mean anything.
 nice dodge.
No child raper it's not a dodge, your questions don't mean anything.
which means you are for corporations having carte blanch
over their workers.
No I'm for contract law, prohibition of force and fraud, you are for
an institution having carte blanche over everyone, child raper.
without labor laws, corporations
institute forced labor,
  When did this happen?  What situation without "labor laws"
defined in the usual way resulted in corporations instituting forced
labor?  In fact the places where corporations instituted forced labor
had lots of labor laws, especially the fascist ones.
 forced labor with window dressing laws, all of the hallmarks of
fascism. but you seem to be against labor laws, funny:))))
Sorry child raper but I'm specifically for "labor laws" as you
define them
and directly said that.
  BTW earn to read moron. "I am for the rights of all individuals,
whether practised individual or collectively"  This obviously
includes the right not to be forced to work.
 then you would be for strong government enforcement of labor laws
correct?
I am for enforcement of both the right not to be defrauded and the
right not to have force initiated against them by your definition this
includes "labor laws". I do not believe a government is needed or
even helpful in enforcing either of these and historically they've
violated these rights more than anyone.
and child labor. so are you for the rights of
citizens, to have a say over how corporations operate?
  If by that you mean should the citizens be allowed to forbid them
for using force or fraud then yes of course, it's a fundamental
libertarian principle that nobody should be allowed to use force
or fraud.
 then you do not agree with the state being forced out of its economic
duties correct?
I am for the state being forced out of existence, child raper. Try
to look
up what anarcho-capitalism is moron.
  That you are ignorant of that and yet claim to know what
libertarianism is simply shows what a stupid scumbag you are.
  Of course that might not be what the question means.  So clarify,
what does it mean?  Who are "the cititzens" and what does it mean
for them to "have a say"?  Do you mean "the government" "has a say"?
And by "have a say" do you mean "can override any decision" without
accountability to the corporation"?  Because If you do, and I suspect
you do, you're the one who's closer to the fascists.
 citizens on their own, cannot get gigantic corporations to behave.
Claim without evidence ignored.
citizens collectively use government for that.
Claim without evidence ignored, child raper.
so you are for government involvement in the markets then?
Nope.
are you for the rights of corporations over governments?
  I am for the rights of anyone over governments because the rights
of
govenrments do not exist.  In any case when did fascists champion the
rights of corporations over govenrment?  Seriously you have no idea
what
fascism is.  Fascism by definition holds the rights of the government
supreme.
http://www.brainyquote.com/quotes/authors/b/benito_mussolini.html
Fascism should more appropriately be called Corporatism because it is
a merger of state and corporate power.
Benito Mussolini
  Yeah shit for brains try to pretend that means corporations have
power and
the government doesn't control them.  The problem is that fascists
always
excercise complete control of the corporations.
 that is a lie of course.
Repeating things irrelevant to the point is not evidence, child
raper.
are you for the rights of citizens over corporations.
  Again, what does this mean?  I am for the rights of all people,
citizens and noncitizens (the distinction being purely arbitrary) whether
individually or collectively exercised.  This is how fucking ignorant you are, you
don't even know the libertarian position and still you claim you know all
about it .
  You are far closer to fascism than I ever was.  Suck it bitch.
 but you evaded the question,
  No I answered it completely, you lying shitbag, despite the fact
that it was too vague
to know what it meant.  You have a complete description of my attitude
to corporations,
citizens, and the relationship between them.  You're just too stupid
to understand it.
 then i can only come to the conclusion that you value corporations
over real live human beings.
Yeah the fact that this is the only conclusion you can come to is
evidence it's not true child raper.
are you for the rights of citizens over
corporations. what that means is, do citizens have the right to
exercise control over corporations?
  Again you haven't said what that actually means.  Do you mean the
government should have control over corporations?  Like in a fascist
system?
 is it possible that all of this evasion, masks the facts that you do
not believe that citizens should have control over corporations:))))
I am asking a simple question, what do you mean? It's not evasion
child raper it's simply asking you to clarify. Considering that you
deliberately misinterpret everything I say and I would be as idiotic
as you, child raper to not ask you to clarify.
 so far i have not agreed with one position of fascism,
  You believe in the a state do you not?  That's a position of fascism
you agree with.  Along with universal government paid health care,
government pensions, labor laws, tax-paid armies, and so on. Seriously
liar did you not know I would get you on that crap, fucktard?
 the state is not fascist, if it does its duty,
In other words it's not fascist if you like it.
and controls super wealth and power. fascists states allow the free market,
The definition of fascism that YOU LINKED TO says the opposite child
raper.
to do as it pleases.
yet you have
either agreed with them all,
  So you're claiming I've agree with the fascist position on labor
laws (which
they favor and I don't),
 fascists labor laws favor capital.
So do most labor laws.
government set wage rates (which they favor
and I don't),
 so you are for minimum wages?
Learn to read moron THEY favor it, _I_ do not.
if you do not. then corporations set
the wage. we see that all over asia, millions working for starvation
wages.
Corporations don't set the wage the market does, but you spend too
much time raping children and too little actually finding out what
the market does to know that.
tariff (which they favor and I don't),
 without tariffs, fascist nations will flood democracies with forced
or slave labor goods.
Wow, you really are anti-freedom aren't you?
see, you are a tool for them. you are a fascist.
 large tax-paid armies (which
they favor and I don't)?
 small potato's.
Yeah a fucking several million ;man army is small potatoes
child raper.
in the end, you will demand obedience.
And yet my beliefs are for exactly the opposite and yours
are for what you accuse me off, child raper.
Seriously fucktard who are you trying to kid?  You're nothing but a
sad pathetic liar who
thinks that if he slings enough shit and never learns anything he
won't have to admit
he's a fucking moron who likes coercing people.
 so far you have agreed with much that is fascist in nature.
Less that you child raper.
or simply evaded answering the question,
  Nope didn't do that once.
which casts a shadow of a doubt of your true beliefs.
 are you pro free market?
  Yes, unlike the fascists.
 the norwegain shooter was also.
Yet you haven't shown any evidence of this, nor has anyone that I
know of. What
too busy raping children to bother.
 are you anti-marxist?
  Yes, aren't you?
 i am anti-extremists of all forms.
Then you're anti-Marxist and using the fact that I am against me.
 the norwegian shooter was anti-marxist:)))))
So he was like you?
are you anti-big government?
  Yes unlike the fascists.
 the norwegian shooter was anti-big government:)))))))))
Hey, child raper I don't believe you.
Nickname unavailable
2011-07-26 21:12:52 UTC
Permalink
On Jul 26, 8:47 am, Michael Price <***@yahoo.com> wrote:


oh dear, my my, look what i found:)))))))))))))))))))))

Norway conservative/libertarian/fascist Terrorist Was A Pam Geller
Fan:if you do not know who pam geller is, you can find her on her ayn
rand site:)http://atlasshrugs2000.typepad.com/
lots of prominent conservative/libertarian/fascists listed on the
shooters manifesto:)))))))

http://www.oliverwillis.com/2011/07/25/norway-terrorist-was-a-pam-gellar-fan/


Norway Terrorist Was A Pam Geller Fan
11:25 am EST July 25th, 2011 | News | 60 Comments
Tweet


Hate and hate hang together.
In a manifesto posted online, the admitted killer, Anders Behring
Breivik, praised Geller. He cited her blog, Atlas Shrugs, and the
writings of her friends, allies, and collaborators—Robert Spencer,
Jihad Watch, Islam Watch, and Front Page magazine—more than 250 times.
And he echoed their tactics, tarring peaceful Muslims with the crimes
of violent Muslims. He wrote that all Muslims sought to impose “sharia
laws” and that “there are no important theological differences between
jihadists and so-called ‘peaceful’ or ‘moderate’ Muslims.” He
reprinted, as part of the manifesto, a 2006 essay by “Fjordman”—a
blogger whose work appears frequently on Geller’s site—which argued
that “radical Muslims and moderate Muslims are allies” and that
because Islam teaches deception, no Muslim who claims to be moderate
can be trusted.


pam gellers site, pays a huge homage to ayn rand, the libertarian
terrorist.
http://atlasshrugs2000.typepad.com/
Michael Price
2011-07-27 02:33:37 UTC
Permalink
 oh dear, my my, look what i found:)))))))))))))))))))))
Norway conservative/libertarian/fascist
Note that you still have no reason to believe he had ANY
libertarian views.
That someone claims to be a libertarian doesn't make them so,
particularly if they advocate violence as a means to solve problems.
In any case the ONLY thing he appears to have in common with
these claimed libertarians is a dislike of muslims. Considering
he was a neo-Nazi and therefore against practically the whole
libertarian program (and far more in tune with yours) claiming
he's a libertarian is absurd.
You are still stuck on this idea that because (you think) fascists
like privatisation and low taxes for the rich (which forcibly
borrowing from them, which is the same thing as taxing) this
means libertarianism = fasicm. That they disagree on fascism
on the size, power, role and authority of government escapes
you because you're a fucktard who only wants to hate because
he's a sad little man who has nothing else.
Terrorist Was A Pam Geller
Fan:if you do not know who pam geller is, you can find her on her ayn
rand site:)http://atlasshrugs2000.typepad.com/
 lots of prominent conservative/libertarian/fascists listed on the
shooters manifesto:)))))))
http://www.oliverwillis.com/2011/07/25/norway-terrorist-was-a-pam-gel...
Norway Terrorist Was A Pam Geller Fan
11:25 am EST July 25th, 2011 | News | 60 Comments
Tweet
Hate and hate hang together.
In a manifesto posted online, the admitted killer, Anders Behring
Breivik, praised Geller. He cited her blog, Atlas Shrugs, and the
writings of her friends, allies, and collaborators—Robert Spencer,
Jihad Watch, Islam Watch, and Front Page magazine—more than 250 times.
And he echoed their tactics, tarring peaceful Muslims with the crimes
of violent Muslims. He wrote that all Muslims sought to impose “sharia
laws” and that “there are no important theological differences between
jihadists and so-called ‘peaceful’ or ‘moderate’ Muslims.” He
reprinted, as part of the manifesto, a 2006 essay by “Fjordman”—a
blogger whose work appears frequently on Geller’s site—which argued
that “radical Muslims and moderate Muslims are allies” and that
because Islam teaches deception, no Muslim who claims to be moderate
can be trusted.
pam gellers site, pays a huge homage to ayn rand, the libertarian
terrorist.http://atlasshrugs2000.typepad.com/
Nickname unavailable
2011-07-27 05:32:11 UTC
Permalink
 oh dear, my my, look what i found:)))))))))))))))))))))
Norway conservative/libertarian/fascist
  Note that you still have no reason to  believe he had ANY
libertarian views.
really, he just happened to mention them in his manifesto many times.
  That someone claims to be a libertarian doesn't make them so,
particularly if they advocate violence as a means to solve problems.
libertarianism is not monolithic. just a couple of days ago, a
libertarian in norway, murdered many innocent people.
  In any case the ONLY thing he appears to have in common with
these claimed libertarians is a dislike of muslims.  Considering
he was a neo-Nazi and therefore against practically the whole
libertarian program (and far more in tune with yours) claiming
he's a libertarian is absurd.
nope, you are lying again. if his libertarian views seem like
nazisim, its because they are very similar.
  You are still stuck on this idea that because (you think) fascists
like privatisation and low taxes for the rich (which forcibly
borrowing from them, which is the same thing as taxing) this
means libertarianism = fasicm.  That they disagree on fascism
on the size, power, role and authority of government escapes
you because you're a fucktard who only wants to hate because
he's a sad little man who has nothing else.
fascism is corporatism. its a matter of fact. privatization and tax
cuts for the wealthy, were part of the cornerstone of fascist
economics. you keep coming back to this. which means you protest to
much. you know what you are.
Terrorist Was A Pam Geller
Fan:if you do not know who pam geller is, you can find her on her ayn
rand site:)http://atlasshrugs2000.typepad.com/
 lots of prominent conservative/libertarian/fascists listed on the
shooters manifesto:)))))))
http://www.oliverwillis.com/2011/07/25/norway-terrorist-was-a-pam-gel...
Norway Terrorist Was A Pam Geller Fan
11:25 am EST July 25th, 2011 | News | 60 Comments
Tweet
Hate and hate hang together.
In a manifesto posted online, the admitted killer, Anders Behring
Breivik, praised Geller. He cited her blog, Atlas Shrugs, and the
writings of her friends, allies, and collaborators—Robert Spencer,
Jihad Watch, Islam Watch, and Front Page magazine—more than 250 times.
And he echoed their tactics, tarring peaceful Muslims with the crimes
of violent Muslims. He wrote that all Muslims sought to impose “sharia
laws” and that “there are no important theological differences between
jihadists and so-called ‘peaceful’ or ‘moderate’ Muslims.” He
reprinted, as part of the manifesto, a 2006 essay by “Fjordman”—a
blogger whose work appears frequently on Geller’s site—which argued
that “radical Muslims and moderate Muslims are allies” and that
because Islam teaches deception, no Muslim who claims to be moderate
can be trusted.
pam gellers site, pays a huge homage to ayn rand, the libertarian
terrorist.http://atlasshrugs2000.typepad.com/
yep, he admired ayn rand.
Michael Price
2011-07-28 01:16:46 UTC
Permalink
 oh dear, my my, look what i found:)))))))))))))))))))))
Norway conservative/libertarian/fascist
  Note that you still have no reason to  believe he had ANY
libertarian views.
 really, he just happened to mention them in his manifesto many times.
Really liar? Then why haven't you named a single libertarian
position he
took? Because not liking muslims isn't a libertarian position.
Seriously do you expect people to take your word after you accused
me
repeatedly of being for forced labor when I specifically said it
should be
outlawed in the post you were replying to when you accused me?
  That someone claims to be a libertarian doesn't make them so,
particularly if they advocate violence as a means to solve problems.
 libertarianism is not monolithic.
Nevertheless there are identifiable libertarian positions, so what
were his?
just a couple of days ago, a libertarian in norway, murdered many innocent people.
So you claim but you haven't shown that he was a libertarian, liar.
All you've
shown is that he agree with someone who called themselves libertarian
on subjects
that had nothing to do with libertarianims.
  In any case the ONLY thing he appears to have in common with
these claimed libertarians is a dislike of muslims.  Considering
he was a neo-Nazi and therefore against practically the whole
libertarian program (and far more in tune with yours) claiming
he's a libertarian is absurd.
 nope, you are lying again. if his libertarian views seem like
nazisim, its because they are very similar.
Hey fucktard, you know how I know you're lying? Because you
haven't mentioned or linked to a single one of his views that were
libertarian. The only political party I can tell he associated with
is not at all libertarian.
  You are still stuck on this idea that because (you think) fascists
like privatisation and low taxes for the rich (which forcibly
borrowing from them, which is the same thing as taxing) this
means libertarianism = fasicm.  That they disagree on fascism
on the size, power, role and authority of government escapes
you because you're a fucktard who only wants to hate because
he's a sad little man who has nothing else.
 fascism is corporatism. its a matter of fact. privatization and tax
cuts for the wealthy, were part of the cornerstone of fascist
economics.
You keep claiming that they're a "cornerstone" but you
haven't shown why they're any more a "cornerstone" than the
dozens of things YOU share with fascists.
you keep coming back to this. which means you protest to
much. you know what you are.
So because you keep making the same unsupported
lie and I respond to it that means I'm the liar?
Terrorist Was A Pam Geller
Fan:if you do not know who pam geller is, you can find her on her ayn
rand site:)http://atlasshrugs2000.typepad.com/
 lots of prominent conservative/libertarian/fascists listed on the
shooters manifesto:)))))))
http://www.oliverwillis.com/2011/07/25/norway-terrorist-was-a-pam-gel...
Norway Terrorist Was A Pam Geller Fan
11:25 am EST July 25th, 2011 | News | 60 Comments
Tweet
Hate and hate hang together.
In a manifesto posted online, the admitted killer, Anders Behring
Breivik, praised Geller. He cited her blog, Atlas Shrugs, and the
writings of her friends, allies, and collaborators—Robert Spencer,
Jihad Watch, Islam Watch, and Front Page magazine—more than 250 times.
And he echoed their tactics, tarring peaceful Muslims with the crimes
of violent Muslims. He wrote that all Muslims sought to impose “sharia
laws” and that “there are no important theological differences between
jihadists and so-called ‘peaceful’ or ‘moderate’ Muslims.” He
reprinted, as part of the manifesto, a 2006 essay by “Fjordman”—a
blogger whose work appears frequently on Geller’s site—which argued
that “radical Muslims and moderate Muslims are allies” and that
because Islam teaches deception, no Muslim who claims to be moderate
can be trusted.
pam gellers site, pays a huge homage to ayn rand, the libertarian
terrorist.http://atlasshrugs2000.typepad.com/
 yep, he admired ayn rand.
You can't even show that he did. All you can show is that he quoted
people
who claimed to admire Rand. In fact Rand was specifically anti-
fascist, specifically
anti-racist and specifically against immigration restriction. So of
the two views I
know the shooter had Rand disagreed with both. So suck it bitch.
Topaz
2011-07-20 10:23:34 UTC
Permalink
Here is a quote from Mein Kampf:

"The fight which Fascist Italy waged against Jewry's three
principal weapons, the profound reasons for which may not have been
consciously understood (though I do not believe this myself) furnishes
the best proof that the poison fangs of that Power which transcends
all State boundaries are being drawn, even though in an indirect way.
The prohibition of Freemasonry and secret societies, the suppression
of the supranational Press and the definite abolition of Marxism,
together with the steadily increasing consolidation of the Fascist
concept of the State--all this will enable the Italian Government, in
the course of some years, to advance more and more the interests of
the Italian people without paying any attention to the hissing of the
Jewish world-hydra.
"The English situation is not so favorable. In that country
which has 'the freest democracy' the Jew dictates his will, almost
unrestrained but indirectly, through his influence on public opinion."


http://www.ihr.org/ http://www.natvan.com http://www.nsm88.org

http://heretical.com/ http://immigration-globalization.blogspot.com/
Jerry Okamura
2011-07-20 19:23:22 UTC
Permalink
The real fight it seems to me, is a fight over freedom and independence.
How much of which do we really want?

"Topaz" wrote in message news:***@4ax.com...


Here is a quote from Mein Kampf:

"The fight which Fascist Italy waged against Jewry's three
principal weapons, the profound reasons for which may not have been
consciously understood (though I do not believe this myself) furnishes
the best proof that the poison fangs of that Power which transcends
all State boundaries are being drawn, even though in an indirect way.
The prohibition of Freemasonry and secret societies, the suppression
of the supranational Press and the definite abolition of Marxism,
together with the steadily increasing consolidation of the Fascist
concept of the State--all this will enable the Italian Government, in
the course of some years, to advance more and more the interests of
the Italian people without paying any attention to the hissing of the
Jewish world-hydra.
"The English situation is not so favorable. In that country
which has 'the freest democracy' the Jew dictates his will, almost
unrestrained but indirectly, through his influence on public opinion."


http://www.ihr.org/ http://www.natvan.com http://www.nsm88.org

http://heretical.com/ http://immigration-globalization.blogspot.com/
Rod Speed
2011-07-20 20:28:50 UTC
Permalink
Post by Jerry Okamura
The real fight it seems to me, is a fight over freedom and independence.
Hasnt been that way for a long time now.
Post by Jerry Okamura
How much of which do we really want?
Depends on how you define 'freedom and independence'

It isnt about not paying taxes.
Post by Jerry Okamura
"The fight which Fascist Italy waged against Jewry's three
principal weapons, the profound reasons for which may not have been
consciously understood (though I do not believe this myself) furnishes
the best proof that the poison fangs of that Power which transcends
all State boundaries are being drawn, even though in an indirect way.
The prohibition of Freemasonry and secret societies, the suppression
of the supranational Press and the definite abolition of Marxism,
together with the steadily increasing consolidation of the Fascist
concept of the State--all this will enable the Italian Government, in
the course of some years, to advance more and more the interests of
the Italian people without paying any attention to the hissing of the
Jewish world-hydra.
"The English situation is not so favorable. In that country
which has 'the freest democracy' the Jew dictates his will, almost
unrestrained but indirectly, through his influence on public opinion."
http://www.ihr.org/ http://www.natvan.com http://www.nsm88.org
http://heretical.com/ http://immigration-globalization.blogspot.com/
Jerry Okamura
2011-07-23 21:57:54 UTC
Permalink
Post by Jerry Okamura
The real fight it seems to me, is a fight over freedom and independence.
Hasnt been that way for a long time now.

But it is now....
Post by Jerry Okamura
How much of which do we really want?
Depends on how you define 'freedom and independence'

It isnt about not paying taxes.

No it isn't...
Rod Speed
2011-07-24 00:54:19 UTC
Permalink
Post by Jerry Okamura
Post by Rod Speed
Post by Jerry Okamura
The real fight it seems to me, is a fight over freedom and independence.
Hasnt been that way for a long time now.
But it is now....
Nope.
Post by Jerry Okamura
Post by Rod Speed
Post by Jerry Okamura
How much of which do we really want?
Depends on how you define 'freedom and independence'
It isnt about not paying taxes.
No it isn't...
Topaz
2011-07-24 09:53:08 UTC
Permalink
On Sat, 23 Jul 2011 11:57:54 -1000, "Jerry Okamura"
Post by Rod Speed
Depends on how you define 'freedom and independence'
It isnt about not paying taxes.
No it isn't...
Want do you liberals want freedom for, besides drugs, prostitution,
greed, and race mixing.


http://www.ihr.org/ http://www.natvan.com http://www.nsm88.org

http://heretical.com/ http://immigration-globalization.blogspot.com/
Michael Ejercito
2011-07-25 16:04:25 UTC
Permalink
Post by Topaz
On Sat, 23 Jul 2011 11:57:54 -1000, "Jerry Okamura"
Post by Rod Speed
Depends on how you define 'freedom and independence'
It isnt about not paying taxes.
No it isn't...
 Want do you liberals want freedom for, besides drugs, prostitution,
greed, and race mixing.
http://www.ihr.org/   http://www.natvan.com http://www.nsm88.org
http://heretical.com/ http://immigration-globalization.blogspot.com/
What is wrong with race mixing? This video shows it can be fun.

http://www.redtube.com/6316


Michael
Topaz
2011-07-25 21:22:36 UTC
Permalink
"There's this hilarious disconnect in the sheeple brain, where they
have been progressively brainwashed over a forty year period into
believing that once they have committed suicide themselves, an
identical civilization will be left behind except with a different
demographic makeup. They will yank the white tablecloth out from under
the dinnerware and the society will remain standing, only
melanin-enriched but otherwise the same.

It's like white people all over the planet were each taking turns
shooting themselves in the head with the same gun, convinced when they
have all killed themselves they will leave the perfect society behind.
I've got bad news for you. What you think of as civilization is joined
at the hip with the Indo-European gene pool. It's not even like oil
and water because it's all an unbroken continuum.

Culture is gene expression. If enough Mexicans inhabit any area on the
planet, that area will look exactly like Mexico in short order.

There's no piece of land on Earth that has a special gas exuded by the
local soil that makes flush toilets, clean running water, air
conditioning and the rule of law. There's no geographic location that
has these properties inherently. Irregardless of whether they are
bright enough to see it and understand why, whites tend to terraform
their surroundings to reflect what is inside them. Everything they
take for granted as the human standard, is in fact a projection of
their own qualities out onto a world that by and large is completely
indifferent to them.

America has already slipped past the demographic failsafe point. There
ain't no going back. Just like the nation formerly known as Rhodesia,
you will hear all sorts of yammering and analysis and whining but
nothing can stop Rhodesia from becoming Zimbabwe once all the
Rhodesians leave. It's a done deal.

There's no legislation. There's no emergency action committee. There's
no orchestrated government reform program. There's no mission
statement. There's no declaration of goals or judicial decision. Once
you change the genetic composition of a country, that country will
come to reflect it's demographics, not the other way around.
I went to high school in Chicago. Trust me, thirty years ago it didn't
look like the background of that news report. That was back when
Chicago schools were the best in the country and had some of the
highest scholastic scores in the nation. Back then, next to nobody
dropped out, ever.

You can't keep the street lights working with only half a nation of
high school graduates. You can't find the manpower to keep the ATM
machines running, to keep the power plant maintained at the dam, to
keep the nuclear reactor running. You can't have good medical care
with no good doctors. You can't have bridges that don't collapse with
no engineers.

America is just like Rhodesia during desegregation. All those
Rhodesians who talked about the coming era of rainbow folk dancing and
singing hand-in-hand with their African friends playing little
ukeleles, where are they now? The wind howls. Tumbleweeds blow past.
Two rabid wild dogs fight over a human ribcage in the streets where
the electricity went off a decade ago and has never come back on.
Where are all those Rhodesians looking forward to an era of peace and
harmony now? Where are they? Answer me. Raped and left for dead.
They're all wormfood now. Their farms burned to the ground, their
children strangled, their wives gangraped and forced to run naked
screaming with burning tire necklaces.

Fools. Dust in the wind. Shot in the back of the head and left for the
buzzards in some ditch on the veldt long ago.

It doesn't matter if I'm the only human being out of six billion on
the planet who knows this. Irregardless of the forcible consensus,
this is the way it will come to pass. I will be demonstrated right and
they will turn out to have been catastrophically wrong. Wishing
otherwise never makes anything so.

In another ten years, Amerikwa will be utterly unrecognizable. I
predict that the first thing that will hit you no matter where you get
off a plane in that country will be the smell. Watch and see."

DonnaGiorno

http://www.ihr.org/ http://www.natvan.com http://www.nsm88.org

http://heretical.com/ http://immigration-globalization.blogspot.com/
Michael Ejercito
2011-07-26 01:32:43 UTC
Permalink
Post by Topaz
"There's this hilarious disconnect in the sheeple brain, where they
have been progressively brainwashed over a forty year period into
believing that once they have committed suicide themselves, an
identical civilization will be left behind except with a different
demographic makeup. They will yank the white tablecloth out from under
the dinnerware and the society will remain standing, only
melanin-enriched but otherwise the same.
It's like white people all over the planet were each taking turns
shooting themselves in the head with the same gun, convinced when they
have all killed themselves they will leave the perfect society behind.
I've got bad news for you. What you think of as civilization is joined
at the hip with the Indo-European gene pool. It's not even like oil
and water because it's all an unbroken continuum.
Culture is gene expression. If enough Mexicans inhabit any area on the
planet, that area will look exactly like Mexico in short order.
So if enough Germans inhabit an area, that area will look exactly
like Auschwitz in short order?


Michael
Topaz
2011-07-26 20:41:13 UTC
Permalink
Auschwitz: Myths and facts
by Mark Weber

Nearly everyone has heard of Auschwitz, the German wartime
concentration camp where many prisoners-most of them Jewish-were
reportedly exterminated, especially in gas chambers. Auschwitz is
widely regarded as the most terrible Nazi extermination center. The
camp's horrific reputation cannot, however, be reconciled with the
facts.

Scholars challenge Holocaust story

Astonishing as it may seem, more and more historians and engineers
have been challenging the widely accepted Auschwitz story. These
"revisionist" scholars do not dispute the fact that large numbers of
Jews were deported to the camp, or that many died there, particularly
of typhus and other diseases. But the compelling evidence they present
shows that Auschwitz was not an extermination center and that the
story of mass killings in "gas chambers" is a myth.

The Auschwitz camps

The Auschwitz camp complex was set up in 1940 in what is now
south-central Poland. Large numbers of Jews were deported there
between 1942 and mid-1944.

The main camp was known as Auschwitz I. Birkenau, or Auschwitz II, was
supposedly the main extermination center, and Monowitz, or Auschwitz
III, was a large industrial center where gasoline was produced from
coal. In addition there were dozens of smaller satellite camps devoted
to the war economy.

Four million victims?

At the postwar Nuremberg Tribunal, the Allies charged that the Germans
exterminated four million people at Auschwitz. This figure, which was
invented by the Soviets, was uncritically accepted for many years. It
often appeared in major American newspapers and magazines, for
example. (note 1)

Today no reputable historian, not even those who generally accept the
extermination story, believes this figure. Israeli Holocaust historian
Yehuda Bauer said in 1989 that it is time to finally acknowledge the
familiar four million figure is a deliberate myth. In July 1990 the
Auschwitz State Museum in Poland, along with Israel's Yad Vashem
Holocaust Center, suddenly announced that altogether perhaps one
million people (both Jews and non-Jews) died there. Neither
institution would say how many of these people were killed, nor were
any estimates given of the numbers of those supposedly gassed. (note
2) One prominent Holocaust historian, Gerald Reitlinger, has estimated
that perhaps 700,000 or so Jews perished at Auschwitz. More recently,
Holocaust historian Jean-Claude Pressac has estimated that about
800,000 persons-of whom 630,000 were Jewish-perished at Auschwitz.
While even such lower figures are incorrect, they show how the
Auschwitz story has changed drastically over the years. (note 3)

Bizarre tales

At one time it was seriously claimed that Jews were systematically
electrocuted at Auschwitz. American newspapers, citing a Soviet
eyewitness report from liberated Auschwitz, told readers in February
1945 that the methodical Germans had killed Jews there using an
"electric conveyor belt on which hundreds of persons could be
electrocuted simultaneously [and] then moved on into furnaces. They
were burned almost instantly, producing fertilizer for nearby cabbage
fields." (note 4)

And at the Nuremberg Tribunal, chief U.S. prosecutor Robert Jackson
charged that the Germans used a "newly invented" device to
instantaneously "vaporize" 20,000 Jews near Auschwitz "in such a way
that there was no trace left of them." (note 5) No reputable historian
now accepts either of these fanciful tales.

The Höss 'confession'

A key Holocaust document is the "confession" of former Auschwitz
commandant Rudolf Höss of April 5, 1946, which was submitted by the
U.S. prosecution at the main Nuremberg trial. (note 6)
Although it is still widely cited as solid proof for the Auschwitz
extermination story, it is actually a false statement that was
obtained by torture.

Many years after the war, British military intelligence sergeant
Bernard Clarke described how he and five other British soldiers
tortured the former commandant to obtain his "confession." Höss
himself privately explained his ordeal in these words: "Certainly, I
signed a statement that I killed two and half million Jews. I could
just as well have said that it was five million Jews. There are
certain methods by which any confession can be obtained, whether it is
true or not." (note 7)

Even historians who generally accept the Holocaust extermination story
now acknowledge that many of the specific statements made in the Höss
"affidavit" are simply not true. For one thing, no serious scholar now
claims that anything like two and a half or three million people
perished in Auschwitz.

The Höss "affidavit" further alleges that Jews were already being
exterminated by gas in the summer of 1941 at three other camps:
Belzec, Treblinka and Wolzek. The "Wolzek" camp mentioned by Höss is a
total invention. No such camp existed, and the name is no longer
mentioned in Holocaust literature. Moreover, the story these days by
those who believe in the Holocaust legend is that gassings of Jews did
not begin at Auschwitz, Treblinka, or Belzec until sometime in 1942.
No documentary evidence

Many thousands of secret German documents dealing with Auschwitz were
confiscated after the war by the Allies. Not a single one refers to a
policy or program of extermination. In fact, the extermination story
cannot be reconciled with the documentary evidence.

Many Jewish inmates unable to work

For example, it is often claimed that all Jews at Auschwitz who were
unable to work were immediately killed. Jews who were too old, young,
sick, or weak were supposedly gassed on arrival, and only those who
could be worked to death were temporarily kept alive.

But the evidence shows that, in fact, a very high percentage of the
Jewish inmates were not able to work, and were nevertheless not
killed. For example, an internal German telex message dated Sept. 4,
1943, from the chief of the Labor Allocation department of the SS
Economic and Administrative Main Office (WVHA), reported that of
25,000 Jewish inmates in Auschwitz, only 3,581 were able to work, and
that all of the remaining Jewish inmates-some 21,500, or about 86
percent-were unable to work. (note 8)

This is also confirmed in a secret report dated April 5, 1944, on
"security measures in Auschwitz" by Oswald Pohl, head of the SS
concentration camp system, to SS chief Heinrich Himmler. Pohl reported
that there was a total of 67,000 inmates in the entire Auschwitz camp
complex, of whom 18,000 were hospitalized or disabled. In the
Auschwitz II camp (Birkenau), supposedly the main extermination
center, there were 36,000 inmates, mostly female, of whom
"approximately 15,000 are unable to work." (note 9)

These two documents simply cannot be reconciled with the Auschwitz
extermination story.

The evidence shows that Auschwitz-Birkenau was established primarily
as a camp for Jews who were not able to work, including the sick and
elderly, as well as for those who were temporarily awaiting assignment
to other camps. That's the considered view of Dr. Arthur Butz of
Northwestern University, who also says that this was the reason for
the unusually high death rate there. (note 10)

Princeton University history professor Arno Mayer, who is Jewish,
acknowledges in a recent book about the "final solution" that more
Jews perished at Auschwitz as a result of typhus and other "natural"
causes than were executed. (note 11)

Anne Frank

Perhaps the best known Auschwitz inmate was Anne Frank, who is known
around the world for her famous diary. But few people know that
thousands of Jews, including Anne and her father, Otto Frank,
"survived" Auschwitz.

The 15-year-old girl and her father were deported from the Netherlands
to Auschwitz in September 1944. Several weeks later, in the face of
the advancing Soviet army, Anne was evacuated along with many other
Jews to the Bergen-Belsen camp, where she died of typhus in March
1945.

Her father came down with typhus in Auschwitz and was sent to the camp
hospital to recover. He was one of thousands of sick and feeble Jews
who were left behind when the Germans abandoned the camp in January
1945, shortly before it was overrun by the Soviets. He died in
Switzerland in 1980.

If the German policy had been to kill Anne Frank and her father, they
would not have survived Auschwitz. Their fate, tragic though it was,
cannot be reconciled with the extermination story.

Allied propaganda

The Auschwitz gassing story is based in large part on the hearsay
statements of former Jewish inmates who did not personally see any
evidence of extermination. Their beliefs are understandable, because
rumors about gassings at Auschwitz were widespread.

Allied planes dropped large numbers of LEAFLETS , written in Polish
and German, on Auschwitz and the surrounding areas which claimed that
people were being gassed in the camp. The Auschwitz gassing story,
which was an important part of the Allied wartime propaganda effort,
was also broadcast to Europe by Allied radio stations. (note 12)

Survivor testimony

Former inmates have confirmed that they saw no evidence of
extermination at Auschwitz.

An Austrian woman, Maria Vanherwaarden, testified about her camp
experiences in a Toronto District Court in March 1988. She was
interned in Auschwitz-Birkenau in 1942 for having sexual relations
with a Polish forced laborer. On the train trip to the camp, a Gypsy
woman told her and the others that they would all be gassed at
Auschwitz.

Upon arrival, Maria and the other women were ordered to undress and go
into a large concrete room without windows to take a shower. The
terrified women were sure that they were about to die. But then,
instead of gas, water came out of the shower heads.
Auschwitz was no vacation center, Maria confirmed. She witnessed the
death of many fellow inmates by disease, particularly typhus, and
quite a few committed suicide. But she saw no evidence at all of mass
killings, gassings, or of any extermination program. (note 13)
A Jewish woman named Marika Frank arrived at Auschwitz-Birkenau from
Hungary in July 1944, when 25,000 Jews were supposedly gassed and
cremated daily. She likewise testified after the war that she heard
and saw nothing of "gas chambers" during the time she was interned
there. She heard the gassing stories only later. (note 14)

Inmates released

Auschwitz internees who had served their sentences were released and
returned to their home countries. If Auschwitz had actually been a top
secret extermination center, the Germans would certainly not have
released inmates who "knew" what was happening in the camp. (note 15)

Himmler orders death rate reduced

In response to the deaths of many inmates due to disease, especially
typhus, the German authorities responsible for the camps ordered firm
counter-measures.

The head of the SS camp administration office sent a directive dated
Dec. 28, 1942, to Auschwitz and the other concentration camps. It
sharply criticized the high death rate of inmates due to disease, and
ordered that "camp physicians must use all means at their disposal to
significantly reduce the death rate in the various camps."

Furthermore, it ordered:

The camp doctors must supervise more often than in the past the
nutrition of the prisoners and, in cooperation with the
administration, submit improvement recommendations to the camp
commandants . . . The camp doctors are to see to it that the working
conditions at the various labor places are improved as much as
possible.

Finally, the directive stressed that "the Reichsfhrer SS [Heinrich
Himmler] has ordered that the death rate absolutely must be reduced."
(note 16)

German camp regulations

Official German camp regulations make clear that Auschwitz was not an
extermination center. They ordered: (note 17)

New arrivals in the camp are to be given a thorough medical
examination, and if there is any doubt [about their health], they must
be sent to quarantine for observation.

Prisoners who report sick must be examined that same day by the camp
physician. If necessary, the physician must transfer the prisoners to
a hospital for professional treatment.

The camp physician must regularly inspect the kitchen regarding the
preparation of the food and the quality of the food supply. Any
deficiencies that may arise must be reported to the camp commandant.
Special care should be given in the treatment of accidents, in order
not to impair the full productivity of the prisoners.

Prisoners who are to be released or transfered must first be brought
before the camp physician for medical examination.

Telltale aerial photos

Detailed aerial reconnaissance photographs taken of Auschwitz-Birkenau
on several random days in 1944 (during the height of the alleged
extermination period there) were made public by the CIA in 1979. These
photos show no trace of piles of corpses, smoking crematory chimneys
or masses of Jews awaiting death, things that have been repeatedly
alleged, and all of which would have been clearly visible if Auschwitz
had been the extermination center it is said to have been. (note 18)
Absurd cremation claims

Cremation specialists have confirmed that thousands of corpses could
not possibly have been cremated every day throughout the spring and
summer of 1944 at Auschwitz, as commonly alleged.
For example, Mr. Ivan Lagace, manager of a large crematory in Calgary,
Canada, testified in court in April 1988 that the Auschwitz cremation
story is technically impossible. The allegation that 10,000 or even
20,000 corpses were burned every day at Auschwitz in the summer of
1944 in crematories and open pits is simply "preposterous" and "beyond
the realm of reality," he declared under oath. (note 19)

Gassing expert refutes extermination story

America's leading gas chamber expert, Boston engineer Fred A.
Leuchter, carefully examined the supposed "gas chambers" in Poland and
concluded that the Auschwitz gassing story is absurd and technically
impossible.

Leuchter is the foremost specialist on the design and installation of
gas chambers used in the United States to execute convicted criminals.
For example, he designed a gas chamber facility for the Missouri state
penitentiary.

In February 1988 he carried out a detailed onsite examination of the
"gas chambers" at Auschwitz, Birkenau and Majdanek in Poland, which
are either still standing or only partially in ruins. In sworn
testimony to a Toronto court and in a technical report, Leuchter
described every aspect of his investigation.

He concluded by emphatically declaring that the alleged gassing
facilities could not possibly have been used to kill people. Among
other things, he pointed out that the so-called "gas chambers" were
not properly sealed or vented to kill human beings without also
killing German camp personnel. (note 20)

Dr. William B. Lindsey, a research chemist employed for 33 years by
the Dupont Corporation, likewise testified in a 1985 court case that
the Auschwitz gassing story is technically impossible. Based on a
careful on-site examination of the "gas chambers" at Auschwitz,
Birkenau and Majdanek, and on his years of experience, he declared: "I
have come to the conclusion that no one was willfully or purposefully
killed with Zyklon B [hydrocyanic acid gas] in this manner. I consider
it absolutely impossible." (note 21)

www.ihr.org


http://www.ihr.org/ http://www.natvan.com http://www.nsm88.org

http://heretical.com/ http://immigration-globalization.blogspot.com/
CUNTICA
2011-07-26 02:56:36 UTC
Permalink
On Jul 24, 5:53 am, Topaz <***@hotmail.com> wrote:


The faggot Nazi Quisling made his own uniform - he looks like another
Adolf Hitler tinpot dictator! What a fucking moron!
Topaz
2011-07-26 20:41:45 UTC
Permalink
Here is a quote from "The Battle for Berlin" by Joseph Goebbels:

We had no idea of the danger that threatened us then. I myself did not
yet know Marxism well enough to foresee the possible consequences. I
shrugged my shoulders as I read the dark prose of the red press and
awaited expectantly the decisive evening.
Around 8 p.m. we drove in an old rusty car from the city center to
Wedding. A cold gray mist hung under a starless sky. Our hearts were
bursting with impatience and expectation.
As we drove down Müllerstraße it was already clear that the evening
did not bode well. Groups of dark figures stood on every street
corner. They apparently planned to teach our party members a bloody
lesson before they even got to the meeting.

Dark masses of people stood outside the Pharus Hall, expressing their
rage and hate with loud and impudent threats.

The leader of the protective forces cleared a way for us and reported
briefly that the hall had been packed since 7:15 p.m. and had been
closed by police. About two-thirds of the audience were Red Front
Fighters. That was what we wanted. There would be a decision. We were
ready to give it all we had.

Entering the hall, we encountered a warm, stiffling aroma of beer and
tobacco. The hall was hot. A lively roar of voices filled the hall.
People were packed in tightly. We reached the podium only with
difficulty.

No sooner was I recognized than hundreds of voices filled with rage
and revenge thundered in my ears: "Bloodhound! Murder of Workers!"
Those were the mildest words they shouted. But a welcoming group of
some party members and S.A. Men answered with passion. Excited battle
cries sounded from the platform. I saw immediately that we were a
minority, but a minority determined to fight, and therefore win.

It was still our custom then for an S.A. leader to chair all of the
party's public meetings. Here too. Tall as a tree he stood up front
and asked for silence with his upraised arm. That was easier said than
done. Mocking laughter was the answer. Insults flew toward the
platform from every corner of the room. People growled and screamed
and raged. There were world revolutionaries scattered about who
apparently had gained the courage they needed by drinking. It was
impossible to quiet the hall. The class-conscious proletariat had not
come to discuss but to fight, to break things up, to put an end to the
Fascist specter with callused workers' fists.

We were not uncertain, even for a moment. We also knew that if the
enemy did not succeed this time in what he had threatened, the future
success of the movement in Berlin was assured.

Fifteen or twenty S.A. and S.S. men stood before the platform in
uniforms and arm bands, an impudent and direct provocation to the Red
Front Fighters. Behind me was a select group of reliable people ready
at any moment to risk their lives to defend me from the onrushing red
mob with brutal force.
The Communists made an obvious mistake in their tactics. They had
scattered small groups throughout the hall, but clumped most of the
rest in the right rear of the hall. I recognized immediately that
there was the center of unrest, and if anything was to be done, we
first had to deal ruthlessly with them. Whenever the chair tried to
open the meeting, a dark chap stood up on a stool and shouted "Point
of Order!" Hundreds of others yelled the same after him.

If one takes from the mass their leader or also their seducer, they
are leaderless and easily controlled. Our tactic therefore was to
silence this cowardly troublemaker at any cost. He felt secure back
there, surrounded by his comrades. We tried to do this peacefully a
few times. The chair shouted over the uproar: "There will be
discussion afterward! But we determine the rules of order!"

That was an ineffective attempt at an unsuitable object. The screamer
wanted to throw the meeting into confusion by his endless shouts and
bring things to the boiling point. Then a general melee would result.

As our efforts to bring the meeting to order peacefully proved
unsuccessful, I took the head of the defensive forces to the side, and
immediately after groups of his men slipped through the thundering
Communist masses. Before the astonished and surprised Red Front troops
realized what was happening, our comrades had hauled the troublemaker
down from his stool and brought him through the raging crowd to the
podium. That was unexpected, but what followed was no surprise. A beer
glass flew through the air and crashed to the floor. That was the
signal for the first major meeting hall battle. Chairs were broken and
legs ripped from tables. Glasses and bottles suddenly appeared and all
hell broke loose. The battle raged for ten minutes. Glasses, bottles,
table and chair legs flew randomly through the air. A deafening roar
rose; the red beast was set free and wanted its victims.

At first it looked as if we were lost. The Communist attack was sudden
and explosive, completely unexpected. But soon the S.A. and S.S. men
distributed throughout the hall and in front of the platform recovered
from their surprise and counterattacked with bold courage. It quickly
became clear that although the Communist Party had masses behind it,
these masses became cowards when faced with a firmly disciplined and
determined opponent. They ran. In short order the red mob that had
come to break up our meeting had been driven from the hall. The order
that could not be secured by good will was gained by brute force.

Usually one is not aware of the stages of a meeting hall battle. Only
later does one recall them. I still remember a scene that I will never
forget; on the podium stood a young S.A. man whom I did not know. He
was hurling his missiles into the on-coming red mob. Suddenly a beer
glass thrown from the distance hit him on the head. A wide stream of
blood ran down his face. He sank with a cry. After a few seconds he
stood up again, grabbed water bottle from the table and threw it into
the hall, where it clattered against the head of an opponent.

The face of this young man is engraved in my memory. This
lightening-fast moment is unforgettable. This gravely-wounded S.A. man
would soon, and indeed for all times, become my most reliable and
loyal comrade.

Only after the red mob had been driven howling, growling and cursing
from the field could one tell how serious and costly the battle had
been. Ten lay in their blood on the platform, most with head injuries,
two with severe concussions. The table and stairs to the platform were
covered in blood. The whole hall resembled a field of ruins.

In the midst of this bloody and ruined wasteland, our tree-high S.A.
leader resumed his place and declared with iron calm: "The meeting
will continue. The speaker has the floor."

Never before or since have I spoken under such dramatic conditions.
Behind me, groaning in pain and bleeding, were seriously injured S.A.
comrades. Around me were broken chair legs, shattered beer glasses and
blood. The whole meeting was icily silent.
We lacked then a medical corps. Since we were in a proletarian
district, we had to have our seriously wounded carried out by
so-called worker volunteers. There were scenes outdoors of
unimaginable inhumanity. The bestial people who were supposedly
fighting for universal brotherhood insulted our poor and defenseless
injured with phases like: "Isn't that pig dead yet?"

Under such conditions it was impossible to give a coherent speech.
Scarcely had I begun to speak when another group of volunteers entered
the hall to carry off a seriously wounded S.A. man on a stretcher. One
of them, encountering the brutal apostles of humanity outside the door
and their unflattering and crude language, shouted for me in
desperation. His voice could be heard loudly and unmistakably on the
platform I interrupted my speech and went through the hall, where
there were still scattered Communist commando groups. Still surprised
by what had happened, they stood quietly and shyly to the side. I bade
farewell to the seriously wounded S.A. comrades.



http://www.ihr.org/ http://www.natvan.com http://www.nsm88.org

http://heretical.com/ http://immigration-globalization.blogspot.com/
Jerry Okamura
2011-07-26 21:17:11 UTC
Permalink
"Topaz" wrote in message news:***@4ax.com...

On Sat, 23 Jul 2011 11:57:54 -1000, "Jerry Okamura"
Post by Rod Speed
Depends on how you define 'freedom and independence'
It isnt about not paying taxes.
No it isn't...
Want do you liberals want freedom for, besides drugs, prostitution,
greed, and race mixing.


What is wrong with legalizing drugs and prostitution? Can you stop people
from being greedy? How can you stop people from being greedy? Can you stop
people of different races from marrying each other? Should we stop people
of different races from marrying each other?
Rod Speed
2011-07-26 22:43:14 UTC
Permalink
Post by Jerry Okamura
Post by Jerry Okamura
Post by Rod Speed
Depends on how you define 'freedom and independence'
It isnt about not paying taxes.
No it isn't...
Want do you liberals want freedom for, besides drugs, prostitution, greed, and race mixing.
What is wrong with legalizing drugs and prostitution?
The problem with complete open slather on all drugs is that a
significant part of the population will do nothing but consume them.
Post by Jerry Okamura
Can you stop people from being greedy?
No, but you can stop the worst of them from raping looting etc.
Post by Jerry Okamura
How can you stop people from being greedy?
You can jail them when you catch them doing what you have proscribed like with Madoff.
Post by Jerry Okamura
Can you stop people of different races from marrying each other?
Yes, you can execute those who do that.
Post by Jerry Okamura
Should we stop people of different races from marrying each other?
Beam Me Up Scotty
2011-07-27 00:25:15 UTC
Permalink
Post by Jerry Okamura
Should we stop people of different races from marrying each other?
They seem to do that just fine on their own when that's what they want.


Should we stop people from hiring a hooker when they want one?



Oh that's right 49 states do that.....
Jerry Okamura
2011-07-28 18:03:48 UTC
Permalink
Post by Jerry Okamura
Post by Topaz
Post by Jerry Okamura
Post by Rod Speed
Depends on how you define 'freedom and independence'
It isnt about not paying taxes.
No it isn't...
Want do you liberals want freedom for, besides drugs, prostitution,
greed, and race mixing.
What is wrong with legalizing drugs and prostitution?
The problem with complete open slather on all drugs is that a
significant part of the population will do nothing but consume them.

Yep...so what?
Post by Jerry Okamura
Can you stop people from being greedy?
No, but you can stop the worst of them from raping looting etc.

Is raping and looting your definition of greed?
Post by Jerry Okamura
How can you stop people from being greedy?
You can jail them when you catch them doing what you have proscribed like
with Madoff.

Does that stop other people in the future from being greedy?
Post by Jerry Okamura
Can you stop people of different races from marrying each other?
Yes, you can execute those who do that.

Who is going to propose doing that?
Beam Me Up Scotty
2011-07-28 18:09:07 UTC
Permalink
Post by Rod Speed
Post by Jerry Okamura
Post by Topaz
Post by Jerry Okamura
Post by Rod Speed
Depends on how you define 'freedom and independence'
It isnt about not paying taxes.
No it isn't...
Want do you liberals want freedom for, besides drugs, prostitution,
greed, and race mixing.
What is wrong with legalizing drugs and prostitution?
The problem with complete open slather on all drugs is that a
significant part of the population will do nothing but consume them.
Yep...so what?
Post by Jerry Okamura
Can you stop people from being greedy?
No, but you can stop the worst of them from raping looting etc.
Is raping and looting your definition of greed?
Post by Jerry Okamura
How can you stop people from being greedy?
You can jail them when you catch them doing what you have proscribed like with Madoff.
Does that stop other people in the future from being greedy?
Post by Jerry Okamura
Can you stop people of different races from marrying each other?
Yes, you can execute those who do that.
Who is going to propose doing that?
The same gay people that will put you in prison for having more than one
wife?
--
Helping the poor use their money more wisely is better than government
gifts allowing more waste.

http://www.ebates.com/rf.do?referrerid=Ho50UCJGk3FsQj%2F6nmqZVA%3D%3D
Jerry Okamura
2011-07-30 22:34:36 UTC
Permalink
Post by Rod Speed
Post by Jerry Okamura
Post by Topaz
Post by Jerry Okamura
Post by Rod Speed
Depends on how you define 'freedom and independence'
It isnt about not paying taxes.
No it isn't...
Want do you liberals want freedom for, besides drugs, prostitution,
greed, and race mixing.
What is wrong with legalizing drugs and prostitution?
The problem with complete open slather on all drugs is that a
significant part of the population will do nothing but consume them.
Yep...so what?
Post by Jerry Okamura
Can you stop people from being greedy?
No, but you can stop the worst of them from raping looting etc.
Is raping and looting your definition of greed?
Post by Jerry Okamura
How can you stop people from being greedy?
You can jail them when you catch them doing what you have proscribed like with Madoff.
Does that stop other people in the future from being greedy?
Post by Jerry Okamura
Can you stop people of different races from marrying each other?
Yes, you can execute those who do that.
Who is going to propose doing that?
The same gay people that will put you in prison for having more than one
wife?






Are gay people advocating that? Who are these gay people?
Beam Me Up Scotty
2011-07-31 03:35:33 UTC
Permalink
Post by Beam Me Up Scotty
Post by Rod Speed
Post by Jerry Okamura
Post by Topaz
Post by Jerry Okamura
Post by Rod Speed
Depends on how you define 'freedom and independence'
It isnt about not paying taxes.
No it isn't...
Want do you liberals want freedom for, besides drugs, prostitution,
greed, and race mixing.
What is wrong with legalizing drugs and prostitution?
The problem with complete open slather on all drugs is that a
significant part of the population will do nothing but consume them.
Yep...so what?
Post by Jerry Okamura
Can you stop people from being greedy?
No, but you can stop the worst of them from raping looting etc.
Is raping and looting your definition of greed?
Post by Jerry Okamura
How can you stop people from being greedy?
You can jail them when you catch them doing what you have proscribed like with Madoff.
Does that stop other people in the future from being greedy?
Post by Jerry Okamura
Can you stop people of different races from marrying each other?
Yes, you can execute those who do that.
Who is going to propose doing that?
The same gay people that will put you in prison for having more than one
wife?
Are gay people advocating that? Who are these gay people?
The Gays aren't fighting for polygamy, they want all polygamists to be
second class citizens.... Gays are Polygaphobians and hate filled NAZI's.




I think I captured the essence of the usual Gay rants about people that
don't fight "for" extra RIGHTS for gays.



Gays call everyone HOMOPHOBES and NAZI all the time, for doing to them
what they are NOW doing to Polygamists.
Topaz
2011-07-31 17:24:04 UTC
Permalink
On Sat, 30 Jul 2011 23:35:33 -0400, Beam Me Up Scotty
Post by Beam Me Up Scotty
The Gays aren't fighting for polygamy, they want all polygamists to be
second class citizens.... Gays are Polygaphobians and hate filled NAZI's.
"The text of this web page was originally published by the United
States Holocaust Memorial Museum as a pamphlet titled "Homosexuals:
Victims of the Nazi Era".

United States Holocaust Memorial Museum,
100 Raoul Walenberg Place SW,
Washington D.C. 20024-2150.

As part of the Nazis' attempt to purify German society and propagate
an "Aryan master race," they condemned homosexuals as "socially
aberrant." Soon after taking office on January 30, 1933, Hitler banned
all homosexual and lesbian organizations. Brownshirted storm troopers
raided the institutions and gathering places of homosexuals. Greatly
weakened and driven underground, this subculture had flourished in the
relative freedom of the 1920s, in the pubs and cafes of Berlin,
Hamburg, Munich, Bremen, and other cities."
http://www.holocaust-trc.org/homosx.htm



http://www.ihr.org/ http://www.natvan.com http://www.nsm88.org

http://heretical.com/ http://immigration-globalization.blogspot.com/
Rod Speed
2011-07-28 18:26:49 UTC
Permalink
Post by Jerry Okamura
Post by Rod Speed
Post by Jerry Okamura
Post by Jerry Okamura
Post by Rod Speed
Depends on how you define 'freedom and independence'
It isnt about not paying taxes.
No it isn't...
Want do you liberals want freedom for, besides drugs, prostitution, greed, and race mixing.
What is wrong with legalizing drugs and prostitution?
The problem with complete open slather on all drugs is that a
significant part of the population will do nothing but consume them.
Yep...so what?
Many consider that that isnt a particularly viable society.

You dont agree ? Your problem, as always.
Post by Jerry Okamura
Post by Rod Speed
Post by Jerry Okamura
Can you stop people from being greedy?
No, but you can stop the worst of them from raping looting etc.
Is raping and looting your definition of greed?
Nope, just an example of the worst of greed.
Post by Jerry Okamura
Post by Rod Speed
Post by Jerry Okamura
How can you stop people from being greedy?
You can jail them when you catch them doing what you have proscribed like with Madoff.
Does that stop other people in the future from being greedy?
It does stop plenty from engaging in that sort of activity.

And has clearly stopped Madoff from continuing to do that.
Post by Jerry Okamura
Post by Rod Speed
Post by Jerry Okamura
Can you stop people of different races from marrying each other?
Yes, you can execute those who do that.
Who is going to propose doing that?
Someone like Adolf already did and didnt just propose doing that, did it too.
Jerry Okamura
2011-07-30 22:33:42 UTC
Permalink
Post by Jerry Okamura
Post by Rod Speed
Post by Jerry Okamura
Post by Topaz
Post by Jerry Okamura
Post by Rod Speed
Depends on how you define 'freedom and independence'
It isnt about not paying taxes.
No it isn't...
Want do you liberals want freedom for, besides drugs, prostitution,
greed, and race mixing.
What is wrong with legalizing drugs and prostitution?
The problem with complete open slather on all drugs is that a
significant part of the population will do nothing but consume them.
Yep...so what?
Many consider that that isnt a particularly viable society.

Only if the assumption is correct?
Rod Speed
2011-07-30 22:48:51 UTC
Permalink
Post by Jerry Okamura
Post by Rod Speed
Post by Jerry Okamura
Post by Rod Speed
Post by Jerry Okamura
Post by Topaz
Post by Jerry Okamura
Post by Rod Speed
Depends on how you define 'freedom and independence'
It isnt about not paying taxes.
No it isn't...
Want do you liberals want freedom for, besides drugs,
prostitution, greed, and race mixing.
What is wrong with legalizing drugs and prostitution?
The problem with complete open slather on all drugs is that a
significant part of the population will do nothing but consume them.
Yep...so what?
Many consider that that isnt a particularly viable society.
Only if the assumption is correct?
It isnt an assumption, its an opinion and there is plenty of evidence that it is correct.
Jerry Okamura
2011-08-02 01:19:54 UTC
Permalink
Post by Jerry Okamura
Post by Rod Speed
Post by Jerry Okamura
Post by Rod Speed
Post by Jerry Okamura
Post by Topaz
Post by Jerry Okamura
Post by Rod Speed
Depends on how you define 'freedom and independence'
It isnt about not paying taxes.
No it isn't...
Want do you liberals want freedom for, besides drugs,
prostitution, greed, and race mixing.
What is wrong with legalizing drugs and prostitution?
The problem with complete open slather on all drugs is that a
significant part of the population will do nothing but consume them.
Yep...so what?
Many consider that that isnt a particularly viable society.
Only if the assumption is correct?
It isnt an assumption, its an opinion and there is plenty of evidence that
it is correct.

What is the difference between an assumption and an opinion. If there is
plenty of evidence to prove your point, it would be nice if you presented
that proof....will you do that?
Rod Speed
2011-08-02 04:39:27 UTC
Permalink
Post by Jerry Okamura
Post by Rod Speed
Post by Jerry Okamura
Post by Rod Speed
Post by Jerry Okamura
Post by Rod Speed
Post by Jerry Okamura
Post by Topaz
Post by Jerry Okamura
Post by Rod Speed
Depends on how you define 'freedom and independence'
It isnt about not paying taxes.
No it isn't...
Want do you liberals want freedom for, besides drugs,
prostitution, greed, and race mixing.
What is wrong with legalizing drugs and prostitution?
The problem with complete open slather on all drugs is that a
significant part of the population will do nothing but consume them.
Yep...so what?
Many consider that that isnt a particularly viable society.
Only if the assumption is correct?
It isnt an assumption, its an opinion and there is plenty of evidence that it is correct.
What is the difference between an assumption and an opinion.
Even you cant actually be THAT thick. Try a dictionary sometime.
Post by Jerry Okamura
If there is plenty of evidence to prove your point, it would be nice if you presented that proof....
I said EVIDENCE, not proof. Words have meanings.
Post by Jerry Okamura
will you do that?
Pointless when you cant even manage to grasp very basic words like those.
Jerry Okamura
2011-08-02 21:50:12 UTC
Permalink
Post by Jerry Okamura
Post by Rod Speed
Post by Jerry Okamura
Post by Rod Speed
Post by Jerry Okamura
Post by Rod Speed
Post by Jerry Okamura
Post by Topaz
Post by Jerry Okamura
Post by Rod Speed
Depends on how you define 'freedom and independence'
It isnt about not paying taxes.
No it isn't...
Want do you liberals want freedom for, besides drugs,
prostitution, greed, and race mixing.
What is wrong with legalizing drugs and prostitution?
The problem with complete open slather on all drugs is that a
significant part of the population will do nothing but consume them.
Yep...so what?
Many consider that that isnt a particularly viable society.
Only if the assumption is correct?
It isnt an assumption, its an opinion and there is plenty of evidence that it is correct.
What is the difference between an assumption and an opinion.
Even you cant actually be THAT thick. Try a dictionary sometime.
Post by Jerry Okamura
If there is plenty of evidence to prove your point, it would be nice if
you presented that proof....
I said EVIDENCE, not proof. Words have meanings.

No you said "opinion", as well as "evidence" An "opinion" is just
that....no evidence required....
Rod Speed
2011-08-02 23:59:53 UTC
Permalink
Post by Jerry Okamura
Post by Rod Speed
Post by Jerry Okamura
Post by Rod Speed
Post by Jerry Okamura
Post by Rod Speed
Post by Jerry Okamura
Post by Rod Speed
Post by Jerry Okamura
Post by Topaz
Post by Jerry Okamura
Post by Rod Speed
Depends on how you define 'freedom and independence'
It isnt about not paying taxes.
No it isn't...
Want do you liberals want freedom for, besides drugs,
prostitution, greed, and race mixing.
What is wrong with legalizing drugs and prostitution?
The problem with complete open slather on all drugs is that a
significant part of the population will do nothing but consume them.
Yep...so what?
Many consider that that isnt a particularly viable society.
Only if the assumption is correct?
It isnt an assumption, its an opinion and there is plenty of
evidence that it is correct.
What is the difference between an assumption and an opinion.
Even you cant actually be THAT thick. Try a dictionary sometime.
Post by Jerry Okamura
If there is plenty of evidence to prove your point, it would be nice
if you presented that proof....
I said EVIDENCE, not proof. Words have meanings.
No you said "opinion", as well as "evidence"
Irrelevant to your stupid line about proof.
Post by Jerry Okamura
An "opinion" is just that....no evidence required....
But the evidence is what produces an opinion for all but fools.
Jerry Okamura
2011-08-03 00:21:43 UTC
Permalink
Post by Jerry Okamura
Post by Rod Speed
Post by Jerry Okamura
Post by Rod Speed
Post by Jerry Okamura
Post by Rod Speed
Post by Jerry Okamura
Post by Rod Speed
Post by Jerry Okamura
Post by Topaz
Post by Jerry Okamura
Post by Rod Speed
Depends on how you define 'freedom and independence'
It isnt about not paying taxes.
No it isn't...
Want do you liberals want freedom for, besides drugs,
prostitution, greed, and race mixing.
What is wrong with legalizing drugs and prostitution?
The problem with complete open slather on all drugs is that a
significant part of the population will do nothing but consume them.
Yep...so what?
Many consider that that isnt a particularly viable society.
Only if the assumption is correct?
It isnt an assumption, its an opinion and there is plenty of
evidence that it is correct.
What is the difference between an assumption and an opinion.
Even you cant actually be THAT thick. Try a dictionary sometime.
Post by Jerry Okamura
If there is plenty of evidence to prove your point, it would be nice
if you presented that proof....
I said EVIDENCE, not proof. Words have meanings.
No you said "opinion", as well as "evidence"
Irrelevant to your stupid line about proof.
Post by Jerry Okamura
An "opinion" is just that....no evidence required....
But the evidence is what produces an opinion for all but fools.

No, you don't need any evidence to express an opinion.....
Rod Speed
2011-08-03 00:45:23 UTC
Permalink
Post by Rod Speed
Post by Jerry Okamura
Post by Rod Speed
Post by Jerry Okamura
Post by Rod Speed
Post by Jerry Okamura
Post by Rod Speed
Post by Jerry Okamura
Post by Rod Speed
Post by Jerry Okamura
Post by Topaz
Post by Jerry Okamura
Post by Rod Speed
Depends on how you define 'freedom and independence'
It isnt about not paying taxes.
No it isn't...
Want do you liberals want freedom for, besides drugs,
prostitution, greed, and race mixing.
What is wrong with legalizing drugs and prostitution?
The problem with complete open slather on all drugs is that a
significant part of the population will do nothing but consume them.
Yep...so what?
Many consider that that isnt a particularly viable society.
Only if the assumption is correct?
It isnt an assumption, its an opinion and there is plenty of
evidence that it is correct.
What is the difference between an assumption and an opinion.
Even you cant actually be THAT thick. Try a dictionary sometime.
Post by Jerry Okamura
If there is plenty of evidence to prove your point, it would be
nice if you presented that proof....
I said EVIDENCE, not proof. Words have meanings.
No you said "opinion", as well as "evidence"
Irrelevant to your stupid line about proof.
Post by Jerry Okamura
An "opinion" is just that....no evidence required....
But the evidence is what produces an opinion for all but fools.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post by Rod Speed
No,
Yep.
Post by Rod Speed
you don't need any evidence to express an opinion.....
Thats how fools operate.
Jerry Okamura
2011-08-05 01:12:23 UTC
Permalink
Post by Rod Speed
Post by Jerry Okamura
Post by Rod Speed
Post by Jerry Okamura
Post by Rod Speed
Post by Jerry Okamura
Post by Rod Speed
Post by Jerry Okamura
Post by Rod Speed
Post by Jerry Okamura
Post by Topaz
Post by Jerry Okamura
Post by Rod Speed
Depends on how you define 'freedom and independence'
It isnt about not paying taxes.
No it isn't...
Want do you liberals want freedom for, besides drugs,
prostitution, greed, and race mixing.
What is wrong with legalizing drugs and prostitution?
The problem with complete open slather on all drugs is that a
significant part of the population will do nothing but consume them.
Yep...so what?
Many consider that that isnt a particularly viable society.
Only if the assumption is correct?
It isnt an assumption, its an opinion and there is plenty of
evidence that it is correct.
What is the difference between an assumption and an opinion.
Even you cant actually be THAT thick. Try a dictionary sometime.
Post by Jerry Okamura
If there is plenty of evidence to prove your point, it would be
nice if you presented that proof....
I said EVIDENCE, not proof. Words have meanings.
No you said "opinion", as well as "evidence"
Irrelevant to your stupid line about proof.
Post by Jerry Okamura
An "opinion" is just that....no evidence required....
But the evidence is what produces an opinion for all but fools.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post by Rod Speed
No,
Yep.

Can't provide the evidence?
Post by Rod Speed
you don't need any evidence to express an opinion.....
Thats how fools operate.

So, since you provided an evidence, what does that make you....a fool?
Rod Speed
2011-08-05 01:37:28 UTC
Permalink
Post by Nickname unavailable
Post by Rod Speed
Post by Jerry Okamura
Post by Rod Speed
Post by Jerry Okamura
Post by Rod Speed
Post by Jerry Okamura
Post by Rod Speed
Post by Jerry Okamura
Post by Rod Speed
Post by Jerry Okamura
Post by Topaz
Post by Jerry Okamura
Post by Rod Speed
Depends on how you define 'freedom and independence'
It isnt about not paying taxes.
No it isn't...
Want do you liberals want freedom for, besides drugs,
prostitution, greed, and race mixing.
What is wrong with legalizing drugs and prostitution?
The problem with complete open slather on all drugs is that a
significant part of the population will do nothing but consume them.
Yep...so what?
Many consider that that isnt a particularly viable society.
Only if the assumption is correct?
It isnt an assumption, its an opinion and there is plenty of
evidence that it is correct.
What is the difference between an assumption and an opinion.
Even you cant actually be THAT thick. Try a dictionary sometime.
Post by Jerry Okamura
If there is plenty of evidence to prove your point, it would be
nice if you presented that proof....
I said EVIDENCE, not proof. Words have meanings.
No you said "opinion", as well as "evidence"
Irrelevant to your stupid line about proof.
Post by Jerry Okamura
An "opinion" is just that....no evidence required....
But the evidence is what produces an opinion for all but fools.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post by Rod Speed
No,
Yep.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post by Nickname unavailable
Can't provide the evidence?
Corse I can.
Post by Nickname unavailable
Post by Rod Speed
you don't need any evidence to express an opinion.....
Thats how fools operate.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post by Nickname unavailable
So, since you provided an evidence, what does that make you....a fool?
Providing and having it are different matters entirely, stupid.
Topaz
2011-07-27 10:16:03 UTC
Permalink
On Tue, 26 Jul 2011 11:17:11 -1000, "Jerry Okamura"
Post by Jerry Okamura
What is wrong with legalizing drugs
http://www.wsu.edu/~dee/CHING/OPIUM.HTM
Growing opium in India, the East India Company shipped tons of opium
into Canton which it traded for Chinese manufactured goods and for
tea. This trade had produced, quite literally, a country filled with
drug addicts, as opium parlors proliferated all throughout China in
the early part of the nineteenth century... The effects on Chinese
society were devastating. In fact, there are few periods in Chinese
history that approach the early nineteenth century in terms of pure
human misery and tragedy. In an effort to stem the tragedy, the
imperial government made opium illegal in 1836 and began to
aggressively close down the opium dens.
Post by Jerry Okamura
and prostitution?
Poor people can be exploited.
Post by Jerry Okamura
Can you stop people
from being greedy? How can you stop people from being greedy?
Yes. JP Morgan said that a business leader should not be allowed to
make more than 20 times the average wage of his non executive workers.
This shares the wealth. A business leader may be forced to pay his
workers more, while at the same time this idea keeps plenty of
incentives for business leaders to start new businesses.
Post by Jerry Okamura
Can you stop people of different races from marrying each other?
Yes, it was outlawed in the past.
Post by Jerry Okamura
Should we stop people
of different races from marrying each other?
Yes, we should preserve the White race.


Portugal was once a great nation. It might have been the greatest
nation on earth at one time. But now it is almost like a third world
country. What happened? Race-mixing is what happened. They let a lot
of Black people in and of course the result was racial inter-marriage.
Now the Portuguese people are not as White as they were. We need to
preserve the White race. Here are some quotes from Mein Kampf:

"All that we admire in the world to-day, its science, its art, its
technical developments and discoveries, are the products of the
creative activities of a few peoples, and it may be true that their
first beginnings must be attributed to one race. The maintenance of
civilization is wholly dependant on such peoples. Should they perish,
all that makes this earth beautiful will descend with them into the
grave."

"All the great civilizations of the past became decadent because the
originally creative race died out, as a result of the contamination on
the blood."

"Every manifestation of human culture, every product of art, science
and technical skill, which we see before our eyes to-day, is almost
exclusively the product of the Aryan creative power. This very fact
fully justifies the conclusion that it was the Aryan alone who founded
a superior type of humanity"

"The foundations of actual life in Japan to-day are not those of the
native Japanese culture, although this characterizes the external
features of the country, which features strike the eye of European
observers on account of their fundamental difference from us; but the
real foundations of contemporary Japanese life are the enormous
scientific and technical achievements of Europe and America, that is
to say, of Aryan peoples."
"A people that fails to preserve the purity of its racial blood
thereby destroys the unity of the soul of the nation in all its
manifestations. A disintegrated national character is the inevitable
consequence of the process of disintegration in the blood. And the
change which takes place in the spiritual and creative faculties of a
people is only an effect of the change that had modified its racial
substance."

"For in a world which would be composed of mongrels and Negroid all
ideals of human beauty and nobility and all hopes of an idealized
future for our humanity would be lost forever."

"It is especially the cultural creativeness which disappears when a
superior race inter-mixes with an inferior one."

"There may be hundreds of excellent States in this earth, and yet if
the Aryan, who is the creator and custodian of civilization, should
disappear, all culture that is on an adequate level with the spiritual
needs of the superior nations to-day would also disappear."

"We National Socialists know that in holding these views we take up a
revolutionary stand in the world to-day and that we are branded as
revolutionaries. But our views and our conduct will not be determined
by the approbation or disapprobation of our contemporaries, but only
by our duty to follow a truth which we have acknowledged. In doing
this we have reason to believe that posterity will have a clearer
insight"

"Thus for the first time a high inner purpose is accredited to the
State. In face of the ridiculous phrase that the State should do no
more than act as the guardian of public order and tranquility, so that
everybody can peacefully dupe everybody else, it is given a very high
mission indeed to preserve and encourage the highest type of humanity
which a beneficent Creator has bestowed on this earth."



http://www.ihr.org/ http://www.natvan.com http://www.nsm88.org

http://heretical.com/ http://immigration-globalization.blogspot.com/
Jerry Okamura
2011-07-28 18:08:52 UTC
Permalink
"Topaz" wrote in message news:***@4ax.com...

On Tue, 26 Jul 2011 11:17:11 -1000, "Jerry Okamura"
Post by Jerry Okamura
What is wrong with legalizing drugs
http://www.wsu.edu/~dee/CHING/OPIUM.HTM
Growing opium in India, the East India Company shipped tons of opium
into Canton which it traded for Chinese manufactured goods and for
tea. This trade had produced, quite literally, a country filled with
drug addicts, as opium parlors proliferated all throughout China in
the early part of the nineteenth century... The effects on Chinese
society were devastating. In fact, there are few periods in Chinese
history that approach the early nineteenth century in terms of pure
human misery and tragedy. In an effort to stem the tragedy, the
imperial government made opium illegal in 1836 and began to
aggressively close down the opium dens.

What has your reply got to do with my question?
Post by Jerry Okamura
and prostitution?
Poor people can be exploited.

Poor people are exploited in any event, aren't they? At least if they can
sell their bodies, they can make money, can't they?
Post by Jerry Okamura
Can you stop people
from being greedy? How can you stop people from being greedy?
Yes. JP Morgan said that a business leader should not be allowed to
make more than 20 times the average wage of his non executive workers.
This shares the wealth. A business leader may be forced to pay his
workers more, while at the same time this idea keeps plenty of
incentives for business leaders to start new businesses.

Nice sentiments, how do you prevent someone who wants to make more money
from making more money?
Post by Jerry Okamura
Can you stop people of different races from marrying each other?
Yes, it was outlawed in the past.

Did that stop them from marrying each other? Or did they just live together
without getting married? And do you want to live in a society that would
allow two people from doing what they want to do?
Post by Jerry Okamura
Should we stop people
of different races from marrying each other?
Yes, we should preserve the White race.

Nice goal, but how can you achieve that goal, realistically....


Portugal was once a great nation. It might have been the greatest
nation on earth at one time. But now it is almost like a third world
country. What happened? Race-mixing is what happened. They let a lot
of Black people in and of course the result was racial inter-marriage.
Now the Portuguese people are not as White as they were. We need to
preserve the White race. Here are some quotes from Mein Kampf:

Well, yes...you cannot stop people from doing what they want to do....
Topaz
2011-07-29 00:12:52 UTC
Permalink
On Thu, 28 Jul 2011 08:08:52 -1000, "Jerry Okamura"
Post by Topaz
On Tue, 26 Jul 2011 11:17:11 -1000, "Jerry Okamura"
Post by Jerry Okamura
What is wrong with legalizing drugs
http://www.wsu.edu/~dee/CHING/OPIUM.HTM
Growing opium in India, the East India Company shipped tons of opium
into Canton which it traded for Chinese manufactured goods and for
tea. This trade had produced, quite literally, a country filled with
drug addicts, as opium parlors proliferated all throughout China in
the early part of the nineteenth century... The effects on Chinese
society were devastating. In fact, there are few periods in Chinese
history that approach the early nineteenth century in terms of pure
human misery and tragedy. In an effort to stem the tragedy, the
imperial government made opium illegal in 1836 and began to
aggressively close down the opium dens.
What has your reply got to do with my question?

legalizing drugs = human misery and tragedy
Post by Topaz
Post by Jerry Okamura
and prostitution?
Poor people can be exploited.
Poor people are exploited in any event, aren't they?
Only if you have capitalism and libertarianism.
Post by Topaz
At least if they can
sell their bodies, they can make money, can't they?
Clearly we need to do away with capitalism and libertarianism.
Post by Topaz
Post by Jerry Okamura
Can you stop people
from being greedy? How can you stop people from being greedy?
Yes. JP Morgan said that a business leader should not be allowed to
make more than 20 times the average wage of his non executive workers.
This shares the wealth. A business leader may be forced to pay his
workers more, while at the same time this idea keeps plenty of
incentives for business leaders to start new businesses.
Nice sentiments, how do you prevent someone who wants to make more money
from making more money?
Yes. JP Morgan said that a business leader should not be allowed to
make more than 20 times the average wage of his non executive workers.
This shares the wealth. A business leader may be forced to pay his
workers more, while at the same time this idea keeps plenty of
incentives for business leaders to start new businesses.
Post by Topaz
Post by Jerry Okamura
Can you stop people of different races from marrying each other?
Yes, it was outlawed in the past.
Did that stop them from marrying each other?
Pretty much, the same as any laws.
Post by Topaz
Or did they just live together
without getting married?
We should have a nation for White people. Then we wouldn't have that
problem.
Post by Topaz
And do you want to live in a society that would
allow two people from doing what they want to do?
Yes, we need to preserve the White race.
Post by Topaz
Post by Jerry Okamura
Should we stop people
of different races from marrying each other?
Yes, we should preserve the White race.
Nice goal, but how can you achieve that goal, realistically....
By having a nation for White people.
Post by Topaz
Portugal was once a great nation. It might have been the greatest
nation on earth at one time. But now it is almost like a third world
country. What happened? Race-mixing is what happened. They let a lot
of Black people in and of course the result was racial inter-marriage.
Now the Portuguese people are not as White as they were. We need to
Well, yes...you cannot stop people from doing what they want to do....
The man who wrote the book proved that you can.

http://www.ihr.org/ http://www.natvan.com http://www.nsm88.org

http://heretical.com/ http://immigration-globalization.blogspot.com/
Jerry Okamura
2011-07-30 22:32:33 UTC
Permalink
"Topaz" wrote in message news:***@4ax.com...

On Thu, 28 Jul 2011 08:08:52 -1000, "Jerry Okamura"
Post by Topaz
On Tue, 26 Jul 2011 11:17:11 -1000, "Jerry Okamura"
Post by Jerry Okamura
What is wrong with legalizing drugs
http://www.wsu.edu/~dee/CHING/OPIUM.HTM
Growing opium in India, the East India Company shipped tons of opium
into Canton which it traded for Chinese manufactured goods and for
tea. This trade had produced, quite literally, a country filled with
drug addicts, as opium parlors proliferated all throughout China in
the early part of the nineteenth century... The effects on Chinese
society were devastating. In fact, there are few periods in Chinese
history that approach the early nineteenth century in terms of pure
human misery and tragedy. In an effort to stem the tragedy, the
imperial government made opium illegal in 1836 and began to
aggressively close down the opium dens.
What has your reply got to do with my question?

legalizing drugs = human misery and tragedy
Post by Topaz
Post by Jerry Okamura
and prostitution?
Poor people can be exploited.
Poor people are exploited in any event, aren't they?
Only if you have capitalism and libertarianism.
Post by Topaz
At least if they can
sell their bodies, they can make money, can't they?
Clearly we need to do away with capitalism and libertarianism.
Post by Topaz
Post by Jerry Okamura
Can you stop people
from being greedy? How can you stop people from being greedy?
Yes. JP Morgan said that a business leader should not be allowed to
make more than 20 times the average wage of his non executive workers.
This shares the wealth. A business leader may be forced to pay his
workers more, while at the same time this idea keeps plenty of
incentives for business leaders to start new businesses.
Nice sentiments, how do you prevent someone who wants to make more money
from making more money?
Yes. JP Morgan said that a business leader should not be allowed to
make more than 20 times the average wage of his non executive workers.
This shares the wealth. A business leader may be forced to pay his
workers more, while at the same time this idea keeps plenty of
incentives for business leaders to start new businesses.
Post by Topaz
Post by Jerry Okamura
Can you stop people of different races from marrying each other?
Yes, it was outlawed in the past.
Did that stop them from marrying each other?
Pretty much, the same as any laws.
Post by Topaz
Or did they just live together
without getting married?
We should have a nation for White people. Then we wouldn't have that
problem.


What problem, do we have. Do nations which have very few whites, have no
problems?
Topaz
2011-07-31 17:27:23 UTC
Permalink
On Sat, 30 Jul 2011 12:32:33 -1000, "Jerry Okamura"
Post by Jerry Okamura
What problem, do we have.
We are ruled by Jews who hate the White race.
Post by Jerry Okamura
Do nations which have very few whites, have no
problems?
The former White nations and Japan are the first world. The Black
nations and India are the third world. In the middle, or the second
world are the Arabs and China. It is just as racialists would predict.
It is because the White race is on average much more intelligent than
the Black race. The people in Japan are much lighter in color than the
people in India.

All IQ tests have proven that Whites are on average much more
intelligent than Blacks. White people invented just about everything
important. Most leftists admit that Whites on average score higher on
the tests. They have their excuses for it, but all of their excuses
are demolished in "My Awakening" by David Duke.


http://www.ihr.org/ http://www.natvan.com http://www.nsm88.org

http://heretical.com/ http://immigration-globalization.blogspot.com/
Jerry Okamura
2011-08-02 01:17:46 UTC
Permalink
"Topaz" wrote in message news:***@4ax.com...

On Sat, 30 Jul 2011 12:32:33 -1000, "Jerry Okamura"
Post by Jerry Okamura
What problem, do we have.
We are ruled by Jews who hate the White race.

How come a tiny minority can "rule us"? Can they "rule us" if we do not
allow them to "rule us"? If they do "rule us" isn't that our fault?
Rod Speed
2011-08-02 04:35:35 UTC
Permalink
Post by Jerry Okamura
Post by Topaz
Post by Jerry Okamura
What problem, do we have.
We are ruled by Jews who hate the White race.
How come a tiny minority can "rule us"?
By controlling what is important to us.
Post by Jerry Okamura
Can they "rule us" if we do not allow them to "rule us"?
Depends on whether its possible to stop them controlling what is important to us.

The tiny minority can obviously be killed, but only Adolf got close to doing that in only part of the world.
Post by Jerry Okamura
If they do "rule us" isn't that our fault?
Nope, particularly if we dont believe that killing them is a viable approach.
Jerry Okamura
2011-08-02 21:51:50 UTC
Permalink
Post by Jerry Okamura
Post by Topaz
Post by Jerry Okamura
What problem, do we have.
We are ruled by Jews who hate the White race.
How come a tiny minority can "rule us"?
By controlling what is important to us.

Like what?
Post by Jerry Okamura
Can they "rule us" if we do not allow them to "rule us"?
Depends on whether its possible to stop them controlling what is important
to us.

Can we "stop them" if we want to stop them?

The tiny minority can obviously be killed, but only Adolf got close to doing
that in only part of the world.

Relevance?
Post by Jerry Okamura
If they do "rule us" isn't that our fault?
Nope, particularly if we dont believe that killing them is a viable
approach.

Why do we have to kill them?
Rod Speed
2011-08-03 00:02:55 UTC
Permalink
Post by Jerry Okamura
Post by Rod Speed
Post by Jerry Okamura
Post by Topaz
Post by Jerry Okamura
What problem, do we have.
We are ruled by Jews who hate the White race.
How come a tiny minority can "rule us"?
By controlling what is important to us.
Like what?
Like money or jobs.
Post by Jerry Okamura
Post by Rod Speed
Post by Jerry Okamura
Can they "rule us" if we do not allow them to "rule us"?
Depends on whether its possible to stop them controlling what is important to us.
Can we "stop them" if we want to stop them?
Varys with the minority. If they run the police state, its easier said than done.
Post by Jerry Okamura
Post by Rod Speed
The tiny minority can obviously be killed, but only Adolf got close to doing that in only part of the world.
Relevance?
Completely relevant to your question about allowing them to rule us.
Post by Jerry Okamura
Post by Rod Speed
Post by Jerry Okamura
If they do "rule us" isn't that our fault?
Nope, particularly if we dont believe that killing them is a viable approach.
Why do we have to kill them?
We dont. It is one way of ensuring that they cant rule us.
Jerry Okamura
2011-08-03 00:24:27 UTC
Permalink
Post by Jerry Okamura
Post by Rod Speed
Post by Jerry Okamura
Post by Topaz
Post by Jerry Okamura
What problem, do we have.
We are ruled by Jews who hate the White race.
How come a tiny minority can "rule us"?
By controlling what is important to us.
Like what?
Like money or jobs.

Why do we have to "control" things to have money and jobs?
Post by Jerry Okamura
Post by Rod Speed
Post by Jerry Okamura
Can they "rule us" if we do not allow them to "rule us"?
Depends on whether its possible to stop them controlling what is important to us.
Can we "stop them" if we want to stop them?
Varys with the minority. If they run the police state, its easier said than
done.

but we don't have a "police state", we have a "representative republic". So
back to my question, can we "stop them if we want to stop them"?
Post by Jerry Okamura
Post by Rod Speed
The tiny minority can obviously be killed, but only Adolf got close to
doing that in only part of the world.
Relevance?
Completely relevant to your question about allowing them to rule us.

How?
Post by Jerry Okamura
Post by Rod Speed
Post by Jerry Okamura
If they do "rule us" isn't that our fault?
Nope, particularly if we dont believe that killing them is a viable approach.
Why do we have to kill them?
We dont. It is one way of ensuring that they cant rule us.

So, your point is meaningless, isn't it?
Rod Speed
2011-08-03 00:49:51 UTC
Permalink
Post by Jerry Okamura
Post by Rod Speed
Post by Jerry Okamura
Post by Rod Speed
Post by Jerry Okamura
Post by Topaz
Post by Jerry Okamura
What problem, do we have.
We are ruled by Jews who hate the White race.
How come a tiny minority can "rule us"?
By controlling what is important to us.
Like what?
Like money or jobs.
Why do we have to "control" things to have money and jobs?
No one said we did.
Post by Jerry Okamura
Post by Rod Speed
Post by Jerry Okamura
Post by Rod Speed
Post by Jerry Okamura
Can they "rule us" if we do not allow them to "rule us"?
Depends on whether its possible to stop them controlling what is important to us.
Can we "stop them" if we want to stop them?
Varys with the minority. If they run the police state, its easier said than done.
but we don't have a "police state", we have a "representative republic".
I was talking generally, stupid.
Post by Jerry Okamura
So back to my question, can we "stop them if we want to stop them"?
Depends on which minority you are talking about.

No, you cant stop the tiny minority that choses to run for public office for example.
Post by Jerry Okamura
Post by Rod Speed
Post by Jerry Okamura
Post by Rod Speed
The tiny minority can obviously be killed, but only Adolf got close to doing that in only part of the world.
Relevance?
Completely relevant to your question about allowing them to rule us.
How?
Thats one way to stop them, stupid.
Post by Jerry Okamura
Post by Rod Speed
Post by Jerry Okamura
Post by Rod Speed
Post by Jerry Okamura
If they do "rule us" isn't that our fault?
Nope, particularly if we dont believe that killing them is a viable approach.
Why do we have to kill them?
We dont. It is one way of ensuring that they cant rule us.
So, your point is meaningless, isn't it?
Nope, its one way to stop them. You asked if we can stop them, that is one way to stop them, stupid.
Jerry Okamura
2011-08-05 01:11:04 UTC
Permalink
Post by Jerry Okamura
Post by Rod Speed
Post by Jerry Okamura
Post by Rod Speed
Post by Jerry Okamura
Post by Topaz
Post by Jerry Okamura
What problem, do we have.
We are ruled by Jews who hate the White race.
How come a tiny minority can "rule us"?
By controlling what is important to us.
Like what?
Like money or jobs.
Why do we have to "control" things to have money and jobs?
No one said we did.


Then what did you mean when you said "like money or jobs"?
Post by Jerry Okamura
Post by Rod Speed
Post by Jerry Okamura
Post by Rod Speed
Post by Jerry Okamura
Can they "rule us" if we do not allow them to "rule us"?
Depends on whether its possible to stop them controlling what is important to us.
That depends on "us", doesn't it?
Post by Jerry Okamura
Post by Rod Speed
Post by Jerry Okamura
Can we "stop them" if we want to stop them?
Varys with the minority. If they run the police state, its easier said than done.
but we don't have a "police state", we have a "representative republic".
I was talking generally, stupid.

But it is irrelevant to this conversation, since we do not live in a police
state.
Post by Jerry Okamura
So back to my question, can we "stop them if we want to stop them"?
Depends on which minority you are talking about.

Why does it depend on which minority it is?

No, you cant stop the tiny minority that choses to run for public office for
example.

Why would we want to stop ANYONE from seeking public office? What has that
got to do, with the question I asked?
Post by Jerry Okamura
Post by Rod Speed
Post by Jerry Okamura
Post by Rod Speed
The tiny minority can obviously be killed, but only Adolf got close to
doing that in only part of the world.
Relevance?
Completely relevant to your question about allowing them to rule us.
How?
Thats one way to stop them, stupid.

But we are talking about the USA, weren't we?
Post by Jerry Okamura
Post by Rod Speed
Post by Jerry Okamura
Post by Rod Speed
Post by Jerry Okamura
If they do "rule us" isn't that our fault?
Nope, particularly if we dont believe that killing them is a viable approach.
Why do we have to kill them?
We dont. It is one way of ensuring that they cant rule us.
Ah, but when you try to kill them, they may kill you first, and then they
win, don't they?
Post by Jerry Okamura
So, your point is meaningless, isn't it?
Nope, its one way to stop them. You asked if we can stop them, that is one
way to stop them, stupid.

No, it isn't. If you use force to try and stop them, neither you nor I,
know who will end up being the winners.....
Rod Speed
2011-08-05 01:35:35 UTC
Permalink
Rod Speed wrote \
Post by Rod Speed
Post by Jerry Okamura
Post by Rod Speed
Post by Jerry Okamura
Post by Rod Speed
Post by Jerry Okamura
Post by Topaz
Post by Jerry Okamura
What problem, do we have.
We are ruled by Jews who hate the White race.
How come a tiny minority can "rule us"?
By controlling what is important to us.
Like what?
Like money or jobs.
Why do we have to "control" things to have money and jobs?
No one said we did.
Then what did you mean when you said "like money or jobs"?
That those are two things a tiny minority can contol that are important to most.
Post by Rod Speed
Post by Jerry Okamura
Post by Rod Speed
Post by Jerry Okamura
Post by Rod Speed
Post by Jerry Okamura
Can they "rule us" if we do not allow them to "rule us"?
Depends on whether its possible to stop them controlling what is important to us.
That depends on "us", doesn't it?
Not necessarily. If they are the main source of money or jobs, it
may not be possible to stop them controlling what is important to us.
Post by Rod Speed
Post by Jerry Okamura
Post by Rod Speed
Post by Jerry Okamura
Can we "stop them" if we want to stop them?
Varys with the minority. If they run the police state, its easier said than done.
but we don't have a "police state", we have a "representative republic".
I was talking generally, stupid.
But it is irrelevant to this conversation, since we do not live in a police state.
Nope, because some do have a police state.
Post by Rod Speed
Post by Jerry Okamura
So back to my question, can we "stop them if we want to stop them"?
Depends on which minority you are talking about.
Why does it depend on which minority it is?
Because that determines whether we can stop them if we want to stop them.

If the tiny minority is those who run a police state, its a lot easier said than done.

If the tiny minority is those who choose to get elected to public
office in a representative republic, it isnt that easy to stop the
current elected tiny minority if you cant find anyone else that
appeals to you more who is prepare to stand for public office etc.

And even if you can find some who are prepared to do that, that
does not necessarily mean than you can get them elected either.
Post by Rod Speed
No, you cant stop the tiny minority that choses to run for publicoffice for example.
Why would we want to stop ANYONE from seeking public office?
Because for example you believe that they will control us if the voters are stupid enough to elect
them because they have a lot more money to use to brainwash the voters into voting for them etc.
What has that got to do, with the question I asked?
Everything to do with stopping them.
Post by Rod Speed
Post by Jerry Okamura
Post by Rod Speed
Post by Jerry Okamura
Post by Rod Speed
The tiny minority can obviously be killed, but only Adolf got
close to doing that in only part of the world.
Relevance?
Completely relevant to your question about allowing them to rule us.
How?
Thats one way to stop them, stupid.
But we are talking about the USA, weren't we?
Nope.
Post by Rod Speed
Post by Jerry Okamura
Post by Rod Speed
Post by Jerry Okamura
Post by Rod Speed
Post by Jerry Okamura
If they do "rule us" isn't that our fault?
Nope, particularly if we dont believe that killing them is a viable approach.
Why do we have to kill them?
We dont. It is one way of ensuring that they cant rule us.
Ah, but when you try to kill them, they may kill you first,
The krauts worked out how to avoid that with the jews.
and then they win, don't they?
Not necessarily. Depends on whether they succeed in doing that.

The jews didnt.

Neither did the Japs when they tried it.
Post by Rod Speed
Post by Jerry Okamura
So, your point is meaningless, isn't it?
Nope, its one way to stop them. You asked if we can stop them, that is one way to stop them, stupid.
No, it isn't.
Corse it is. If you kill the tiny minority, they cant conrol you any more.
If you use force to try and stop them, neither you nor I, know who will end up being the winners.....
Thats just plain wrong with the tiny minority of very aggressive criminals.

Anyone with even half a clue has noticed that when the
state uses force to try and stop them that that works.

If you dont believe that, try telling that to bin Laden.

Dont be TOO surprised when he just laughs in your stupid face, from the grave.
Jerry Okamura
2011-08-06 00:23:34 UTC
Permalink
Rod Speed wrote \
Post by Rod Speed
Post by Jerry Okamura
Post by Rod Speed
Post by Jerry Okamura
Post by Rod Speed
Post by Jerry Okamura
Post by Topaz
Post by Jerry Okamura
What problem, do we have.
We are ruled by Jews who hate the White race.
How come a tiny minority can "rule us"?
By controlling what is important to us.
Like what?
Like money or jobs.
Why do we have to "control" things to have money and jobs?
No one said we did.
Then what did you mean when you said "like money or jobs"?
That those are two things a tiny minority can contol that are important to
most.

I suppose that is a true statement, but it only applies if you can prove
that they they use money and jobs to control us.
Post by Rod Speed
Post by Jerry Okamura
Post by Rod Speed
Post by Jerry Okamura
Post by Rod Speed
Post by Jerry Okamura
Can they "rule us" if we do not allow them to "rule us"?
Depends on whether its possible to stop them controlling what is important to us.
That depends on "us", doesn't it?
Not necessarily. If they are the main source of money or jobs, it
may not be possible to stop them controlling what is important to us.

"If" they are a main source of money or jobs....I am still waiting for you
to provide the proof that they are the main source of money or jobs....
Post by Rod Speed
Post by Jerry Okamura
Post by Rod Speed
Post by Jerry Okamura
Can we "stop them" if we want to stop them?
Varys with the minority. If they run the police state, its easier said than done.
but we don't have a "police state", we have a "representative republic".
I was talking generally, stupid.
But it is irrelevant to this conversation, since we do not live in a police state.
Nope, because some do have a police state.

But "we" do not...so the point is irrelevant to the conversation.....
Post by Rod Speed
Post by Jerry Okamura
So back to my question, can we "stop them if we want to stop them"?
Depends on which minority you are talking about.
Why does it depend on which minority it is?
Because that determines whether we can stop them if we want to stop them.

Okay, you said the Jews are controlling us....how do we stop them?
Rod Speed
2011-08-06 01:13:04 UTC
Permalink
Post by Jerry Okamura
Post by Rod Speed
Post by Jerry Okamura
Post by Rod Speed
Post by Jerry Okamura
Post by Rod Speed
Post by Jerry Okamura
Post by Rod Speed
Post by Jerry Okamura
Post by Topaz
Post by Jerry Okamura
What problem, do we have.
We are ruled by Jews who hate the White race.
How come a tiny minority can "rule us"?
By controlling what is important to us.
Like what?
Like money or jobs.
Why do we have to "control" things to have money and jobs?
No one said we did.
Then what did you mean when you said "like money or jobs"?
That those are two things a tiny minority can contol that are important to most.
I suppose that is a true statement,
Corse it is.
Post by Jerry Okamura
but it only applies if you can prove that they they use money and jobs to control us.
The word CAN was used for a reason, stupid.
Post by Jerry Okamura
Post by Rod Speed
Post by Jerry Okamura
Post by Rod Speed
Post by Jerry Okamura
Post by Rod Speed
Post by Jerry Okamura
Post by Rod Speed
Post by Jerry Okamura
Can they "rule us" if we do not allow them to "rule us"?
Depends on whether its possible to stop them controlling what is important to us.
That depends on "us", doesn't it?
Not necessarily. If they are the main source of money or jobs, it
may not be possible to stop them controlling what is important to us.
"If" they are a main source of money or jobs....I am still waiting for you to provide the proof that they are the main
source of money or jobs....
The word IF was used for a reason, stupid.
Post by Jerry Okamura
Post by Rod Speed
Post by Jerry Okamura
Post by Rod Speed
Post by Jerry Okamura
Post by Rod Speed
Post by Jerry Okamura
Can we "stop them" if we want to stop them?
Varys with the minority. If they run the police state, its easier said than done.
but we don't have a "police state", we have a "representative republic".
I was talking generally, stupid.
But it is irrelevant to this conversation, since we do not live in a police state.
Nope, because some do have a police state.
But "we" do not...
We werent just discussion the US, stupid.
Post by Jerry Okamura
so the point is irrelevant to the conversation.....
Wrong, as always. Its was the general situation being discussed.
Post by Jerry Okamura
Post by Rod Speed
Post by Jerry Okamura
Post by Rod Speed
Post by Jerry Okamura
So back to my question, can we "stop them if we want to stop them"?
Depends on which minority you are talking about.
Why does it depend on which minority it is?
Because that determines whether we can stop them if we want to stop them.
Okay, you said the Jews are controlling us....
No I did not. That fool desperately cowering behing the pathetic excuse for a nick of Topaz did.

The attributions are there for a reason, stupid.
Post by Jerry Okamura
how do we stop them?
They can obviously be killed. That would certainly stop them.
Topaz
2011-08-03 00:09:17 UTC
Permalink
On Mon, 1 Aug 2011 15:17:46 -1000, "Jerry Okamura"
Post by Jerry Okamura
How come a tiny minority can "rule us"?
Here is a quote from a very pro-Jewish book that was first
published in 1925. The book is "Stranger than Fiction" by Lewis
Browne.

"The Jews had become the money lenders of Europe for quite
evident reasons. The Church sternly forbade all Christians to engage
in the pursuit...
"So the Jews became the money lenders of Europe. They developed
a great shrewdness and cunning in the one and only field of
opportunity left open to them. And with their shrewdness and cunning
they developed a certain cruelty and greed. That was natural. The
world was cruel to them, so when the chance was theirs, they were
cruel in return..."


The money system we have today is called the debt-money
system. It is evil and needs to be replaced. The only way money comes
into existence today is when it is borrowed. There is no freely
existing money supply, but only borrowed money that needs to be paid
back to bankers with interest. If all the money that was owed to
bankers was ever paid back there would be no money left in circulation
and this would be a great depression. What makes matters even worse is
that when money is created only the principle of the loan is created.
The money needed to pay the interest is never created. For this reason
it is impossible to pay back the principle plus the interest on all of
the loans that make up our money supply. The extra amount of money
needed to pay the interest was never created and does not exist.

The United States government borrows money from the Federal
Reserve Bank. This bank is not federal but owned by private
stockholders. It is in the business section of the phone book, not the
government section. Other banks also create the money in our money
supply. They are allowed to loan out much more money then they
actually have. Thus they create new money. No one else is allowed to
create money, only bankers have this privilege. All of our money is
debt-money and it is all owed back to bankers, plus the interest.

In the U.S.A. money is created by the Bureau of Engraving and
Printing which is a unit of the treasury, but the orders to print come
from the Federal Reserve Banks. The money is created for and owned by
the banks. And the Federal Reserve Banks are not Federal, in spite of
the name. Privately owned commercial banks own the stock of the
Federal Reserve Banks. The Federal Reserve Banks give the newly
created money to the government in exchange for government bonds. To
simplify: The United States does not make its own money. Bankers
create the money and loan it to the United States with an interest
charge.

The book War Cycles Peace Cycles puts it this way:

"If there is only $10 in existence, and you lend it to someone
under the condition that he repay $11, and if he agrees to this, he
has agreed to the impossible."

The book The Struggle for World Power put it this way:

"The Bank of England... was the first payment institution which
was legally empowered to issue state-authorized paper currency and ,
therefore, the Government itself became its debtor. Thus the State not
only renounced its monopoly on monetary emission, but also agreed to
borrow the privately-created money from the bankers...Not only the
thing being done, but even the very name was a deliberate fraud and
deception to conceal the essence of the deed. To create money out of
nothing is to make valid and effective claim on all goods and services
for no return, which is fraud and theft, made worse by the
circumstances that the money is lent out at interest...it follows that
those who have the power to 'create' out of nothing all the money in
each country and the whole world and lend it as stated, have total
power over all states, parties, firms, radio, press, individuals and
so on. Therefore the power of Parliament in general, and especially
with regard to money, is non-existent, and all the true sovereignty is
in the hands of those private individuals who issue all money"
Post by Jerry Okamura
Can they "rule us" if we do not
allow them to "rule us"?
If they do "rule us" isn't that our fault?
Most of "us" are brainwashed by the Jewish controlled media.


http://www.ihr.org/ http://www.natvan.com http://www.nsm88.org

http://heretical.com/ http://immigration-globalization.blogspot.com/
Jerry Okamura
2011-08-03 00:26:23 UTC
Permalink
"Topaz" wrote in message news:***@4ax.com...

On Mon, 1 Aug 2011 15:17:46 -1000, "Jerry Okamura"
Post by Jerry Okamura
How come a tiny minority can "rule us"?
Here is a quote from a very pro-Jewish book that was first
published in 1925. The book is "Stranger than Fiction" by Lewis
Browne.

"The Jews had become the money lenders of Europe for quite
evident reasons. The Church sternly forbade all Christians to engage
in the pursuit...
"So the Jews became the money lenders of Europe. They developed
a great shrewdness and cunning in the one and only field of
opportunity left open to them. And with their shrewdness and cunning
they developed a certain cruelty and greed. That was natural. The
world was cruel to them, so when the chance was theirs, they were
cruel in return..."


The money system we have today is called the debt-money
system. It is evil and needs to be replaced. The only way money comes
into existence today is when it is borrowed. There is no freely
existing money supply, but only borrowed money that needs to be paid
back to bankers with interest. If all the money that was owed to
bankers was ever paid back there would be no money left in circulation
and this would be a great depression. What makes matters even worse is
that when money is created only the principle of the loan is created.
The money needed to pay the interest is never created. For this reason
it is impossible to pay back the principle plus the interest on all of
the loans that make up our money supply. The extra amount of money
needed to pay the interest was never created and does not exist.

The United States government borrows money from the Federal
Reserve Bank. This bank is not federal but owned by private
stockholders. It is in the business section of the phone book, not the
government section. Other banks also create the money in our money
supply. They are allowed to loan out much more money then they
actually have. Thus they create new money. No one else is allowed to
create money, only bankers have this privilege. All of our money is
debt-money and it is all owed back to bankers, plus the interest.

In the U.S.A. money is created by the Bureau of Engraving and
Printing which is a unit of the treasury, but the orders to print come
from the Federal Reserve Banks. The money is created for and owned by
the banks. And the Federal Reserve Banks are not Federal, in spite of
the name. Privately owned commercial banks own the stock of the
Federal Reserve Banks. The Federal Reserve Banks give the newly
created money to the government in exchange for government bonds. To
simplify: The United States does not make its own money. Bankers
create the money and loan it to the United States with an interest
charge.

The book War Cycles Peace Cycles puts it this way:

"If there is only $10 in existence, and you lend it to someone
under the condition that he repay $11, and if he agrees to this, he
has agreed to the impossible."

The book The Struggle for World Power put it this way:

"The Bank of England... was the first payment institution which
was legally empowered to issue state-authorized paper currency and ,
therefore, the Government itself became its debtor. Thus the State not
only renounced its monopoly on monetary emission, but also agreed to
borrow the privately-created money from the bankers...Not only the
thing being done, but even the very name was a deliberate fraud and
deception to conceal the essence of the deed. To create money out of
nothing is to make valid and effective claim on all goods and services
for no return, which is fraud and theft, made worse by the
circumstances that the money is lent out at interest...it follows that
those who have the power to 'create' out of nothing all the money in
each country and the whole world and lend it as stated, have total
power over all states, parties, firms, radio, press, individuals and
so on. Therefore the power of Parliament in general, and especially
with regard to money, is non-existent, and all the true sovereignty is
in the hands of those private individuals who issue all money"
Post by Jerry Okamura
Can they "rule us" if we do not
allow them to "rule us"?
If they do "rule us" isn't that our fault?
Most of "us" are brainwashed by the Jewish controlled media.

So, we are back to my original question. "They rule us" because we allow
them to rule us? And if most of us are brainwashed, then it is our fault
for being brainwashed, isn't it?
Rod Speed
2011-08-03 00:52:16 UTC
Permalink
Post by Topaz
On Mon, 1 Aug 2011 15:17:46 -1000, "Jerry Okamura"
Post by Jerry Okamura
How come a tiny minority can "rule us"?
Here is a quote from a very pro-Jewish book that was first
published in 1925. The book is "Stranger than Fiction" by Lewis
Browne.
"The Jews had become the money lenders of Europe for quite
evident reasons. The Church sternly forbade all Christians to engage
in the pursuit...
"So the Jews became the money lenders of Europe. They developed
a great shrewdness and cunning in the one and only field of
opportunity left open to them. And with their shrewdness and cunning
they developed a certain cruelty and greed. That was natural. The
world was cruel to them, so when the chance was theirs, they were
cruel in return..."
The money system we have today is called the debt-money
system. It is evil and needs to be replaced. The only way money comes
into existence today is when it is borrowed. There is no freely
existing money supply, but only borrowed money that needs to be paid
back to bankers with interest. If all the money that was owed to
bankers was ever paid back there would be no money left in circulation
and this would be a great depression. What makes matters even worse is
that when money is created only the principle of the loan is created.
The money needed to pay the interest is never created. For this reason
it is impossible to pay back the principle plus the interest on all of
the loans that make up our money supply. The extra amount of money
needed to pay the interest was never created and does not exist.
The United States government borrows money from the Federal
Reserve Bank. This bank is not federal but owned by private
stockholders. It is in the business section of the phone book, not the
government section. Other banks also create the money in our money
supply. They are allowed to loan out much more money then they
actually have. Thus they create new money. No one else is allowed to
create money, only bankers have this privilege. All of our money is
debt-money and it is all owed back to bankers, plus the interest.
In the U.S.A. money is created by the Bureau of Engraving and
Printing which is a unit of the treasury, but the orders to print come
from the Federal Reserve Banks. The money is created for and owned by
the banks. And the Federal Reserve Banks are not Federal, in spite of
the name. Privately owned commercial banks own the stock of the
Federal Reserve Banks. The Federal Reserve Banks give the newly
created money to the government in exchange for government bonds. To
simplify: The United States does not make its own money. Bankers
create the money and loan it to the United States with an interest
charge.
"If there is only $10 in existence, and you lend it to someone
under the condition that he repay $11, and if he agrees to this, he
has agreed to the impossible."
"The Bank of England... was the first payment institution which
was legally empowered to issue state-authorized paper currency and ,
therefore, the Government itself became its debtor. Thus the State not
only renounced its monopoly on monetary emission, but also agreed to
borrow the privately-created money from the bankers...Not only the
thing being done, but even the very name was a deliberate fraud and
deception to conceal the essence of the deed. To create money out of
nothing is to make valid and effective claim on all goods and services
for no return, which is fraud and theft, made worse by the
circumstances that the money is lent out at interest...it follows that
those who have the power to 'create' out of nothing all the money in
each country and the whole world and lend it as stated, have total
power over all states, parties, firms, radio, press, individuals and
so on. Therefore the power of Parliament in general, and especially
with regard to money, is non-existent, and all the true sovereignty is
in the hands of those private individuals who issue all money"
Post by Jerry Okamura
Can they "rule us" if we do not
allow them to "rule us"?
If they do "rule us" isn't that our fault?
Most of "us" are brainwashed by the Jewish controlled media.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post by Topaz
So, we are back to my original question. "They rule us" because we
allow them to rule us?
No, that is not the case.
Post by Topaz
And if most of us are brainwashed, then it is our fault for being brainwashed, isn't it?
Nope, not if you dont even realise that you have been brainwashed.

And you have been brainwashed into believing that its not nice to kill people for example
and thats not ncessarily a bad thing.
Jerry Okamura
2011-08-05 01:05:32 UTC
Permalink
Post by Topaz
On Mon, 1 Aug 2011 15:17:46 -1000, "Jerry Okamura"
Post by Jerry Okamura
How come a tiny minority can "rule us"?
Here is a quote from a very pro-Jewish book that was first
published in 1925. The book is "Stranger than Fiction" by Lewis
Browne.
"The Jews had become the money lenders of Europe for quite
evident reasons. The Church sternly forbade all Christians to engage
in the pursuit...
"So the Jews became the money lenders of Europe. They developed
a great shrewdness and cunning in the one and only field of
opportunity left open to them. And with their shrewdness and cunning
they developed a certain cruelty and greed. That was natural. The
world was cruel to them, so when the chance was theirs, they were
cruel in return..."
The money system we have today is called the debt-money
system. It is evil and needs to be replaced. The only way money comes
into existence today is when it is borrowed. There is no freely
existing money supply, but only borrowed money that needs to be paid
back to bankers with interest. If all the money that was owed to
bankers was ever paid back there would be no money left in circulation
and this would be a great depression. What makes matters even worse is
that when money is created only the principle of the loan is created.
The money needed to pay the interest is never created. For this reason
it is impossible to pay back the principle plus the interest on all of
the loans that make up our money supply. The extra amount of money
needed to pay the interest was never created and does not exist.
The United States government borrows money from the Federal
Reserve Bank. This bank is not federal but owned by private
stockholders. It is in the business section of the phone book, not the
government section. Other banks also create the money in our money
supply. They are allowed to loan out much more money then they
actually have. Thus they create new money. No one else is allowed to
create money, only bankers have this privilege. All of our money is
debt-money and it is all owed back to bankers, plus the interest.
In the U.S.A. money is created by the Bureau of Engraving and
Printing which is a unit of the treasury, but the orders to print come
from the Federal Reserve Banks. The money is created for and owned by
the banks. And the Federal Reserve Banks are not Federal, in spite of
the name. Privately owned commercial banks own the stock of the
Federal Reserve Banks. The Federal Reserve Banks give the newly
created money to the government in exchange for government bonds. To
simplify: The United States does not make its own money. Bankers
create the money and loan it to the United States with an interest
charge.
"If there is only $10 in existence, and you lend it to someone
under the condition that he repay $11, and if he agrees to this, he
has agreed to the impossible."
"The Bank of England... was the first payment institution which
was legally empowered to issue state-authorized paper currency and ,
therefore, the Government itself became its debtor. Thus the State not
only renounced its monopoly on monetary emission, but also agreed to
borrow the privately-created money from the bankers...Not only the
thing being done, but even the very name was a deliberate fraud and
deception to conceal the essence of the deed. To create money out of
nothing is to make valid and effective claim on all goods and services
for no return, which is fraud and theft, made worse by the
circumstances that the money is lent out at interest...it follows that
those who have the power to 'create' out of nothing all the money in
each country and the whole world and lend it as stated, have total
power over all states, parties, firms, radio, press, individuals and
so on. Therefore the power of Parliament in general, and especially
with regard to money, is non-existent, and all the true sovereignty is
in the hands of those private individuals who issue all money"
Post by Jerry Okamura
Can they "rule us" if we do not
allow them to "rule us"?
If they do "rule us" isn't that our fault?
Most of "us" are brainwashed by the Jewish controlled media.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post by Topaz
So, we are back to my original question. "They rule us" because we
allow them to rule us?
No, that is not the case.

huh? You just made exactly that case, didn't you? Why do you think you did
not make the case that I described?
Post by Topaz
And if most of us are brainwashed, then it is our fault for being brainwashed, isn't it?
Nope, not if you dont even realise that you have been brainwashed.

So, we are back to my original question....then it is our fault that we are
being brainwashed????

And you have been brainwashed into believing that its not nice to kill
people for example
and thats not ncessarily a bad thing.

But if we truly believed that, then we would not support wars, would we?
Rod Speed
2011-08-05 01:19:49 UTC
Permalink
Post by Nickname unavailable
Post by Topaz
On Mon, 1 Aug 2011 15:17:46 -1000, "Jerry Okamura"
Post by Jerry Okamura
How come a tiny minority can "rule us"?
Here is a quote from a very pro-Jewish book that was first
published in 1925. The book is "Stranger than Fiction" by Lewis
Browne.
"The Jews had become the money lenders of Europe for quite
evident reasons. The Church sternly forbade all Christians to engage
in the pursuit...
"So the Jews became the money lenders of Europe. They developed
a great shrewdness and cunning in the one and only field of
opportunity left open to them. And with their shrewdness and cunning
they developed a certain cruelty and greed. That was natural. The
world was cruel to them, so when the chance was theirs, they were
cruel in return..."
The money system we have today is called the debt-money
system. It is evil and needs to be replaced. The only way money comes
into existence today is when it is borrowed. There is no freely
existing money supply, but only borrowed money that needs to be paid
back to bankers with interest. If all the money that was owed to
bankers was ever paid back there would be no money left in
circulation and this would be a great depression. What makes matters
even worse is that when money is created only the principle of the
loan is created. The money needed to pay the interest is never
created. For this reason it is impossible to pay back the principle
plus the interest on all of the loans that make up our money supply.
The extra amount of money needed to pay the interest was never
created and does not exist. The United States government borrows money from the Federal
Reserve Bank. This bank is not federal but owned by private
stockholders. It is in the business section of the phone book, not
the government section. Other banks also create the money in our
money supply. They are allowed to loan out much more money then they
actually have. Thus they create new money. No one else is allowed to
create money, only bankers have this privilege. All of our money is
debt-money and it is all owed back to bankers, plus the interest.
In the U.S.A. money is created by the Bureau of Engraving and
Printing which is a unit of the treasury, but the orders to print
come from the Federal Reserve Banks. The money is created for and
owned by the banks. And the Federal Reserve Banks are not Federal,
in spite of the name. Privately owned commercial banks own the stock
of the Federal Reserve Banks. The Federal Reserve Banks give the
newly created money to the government in exchange for government
bonds. To simplify: The United States does not make its own money.
Bankers create the money and loan it to the United States with an
interest charge.
"If there is only $10 in existence, and you lend it to someone
under the condition that he repay $11, and if he agrees to this, he
has agreed to the impossible."
"The Bank of England... was the first payment institution which
was legally empowered to issue state-authorized paper currency and ,
therefore, the Government itself became its debtor. Thus the State
not only renounced its monopoly on monetary emission, but also
agreed to borrow the privately-created money from the bankers...Not
only the thing being done, but even the very name was a deliberate
fraud and deception to conceal the essence of the deed. To create
money out of nothing is to make valid and effective claim on all
goods and services for no return, which is fraud and theft, made
worse by the circumstances that the money is lent out at
interest...it follows that those who have the power to 'create' out
of nothing all the money in each country and the whole world and
lend it as stated, have total power over all states, parties, firms,
radio, press, individuals and so on. Therefore the power of
Parliament in general, and especially with regard to money, is
non-existent, and all the true sovereignty is in the hands of those
private individuals who issue all money"
Post by Jerry Okamura
Can they "rule us" if we do not allow them to "rule us"?
If they do "rule us" isn't that our fault?
Most of "us" are brainwashed by the Jewish controlled media.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post by Topaz
So, we are back to my original question. "They rule us" because we
allow them to rule us?
No, that is not the case.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post by Nickname unavailable
huh? You just made exactly that case, didn't you?
That wasnt me, it was someone else. Have a look at the attributions, stupid.
Post by Nickname unavailable
Why do you think you did not make the case that I described?
Because I didnt make it.
Post by Nickname unavailable
Post by Topaz
And if most of us are brainwashed, then it is our fault for being brainwashed, isn't it?
Nope, not if you dont even realise that you have been brainwashed.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post by Nickname unavailable
So, we are back to my original question....
Nope.
Post by Nickname unavailable
then it is our fault that we are being brainwashed????
No it is not. You have been brainwashed on a great raft of things like
not murdering people you disagree with and not shitting on the carpet
etc. Thats not your fault, you were too young to realise that you were
being brainwashed on those things when you were being brainwashed
about those things.
Post by Nickname unavailable
And you have been brainwashed into believing that its not nice to kill
people for example and thats not necessarily a bad thing.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post by Nickname unavailable
But if we truly believed that, then we would not support wars, would we?
No one ever said its not nice to kill someone else in any circumstances.
Topaz
2011-08-03 01:40:22 UTC
Permalink
On Tue, 2 Aug 2011 14:26:23 -1000, "Jerry Okamura"
Post by Jerry Okamura
So, we are back to my original question. "They rule us" because we allow
them to rule us?
The movie "The Island" says:

"Everything we expose them to, their programs, their cartoons, books,
the games they play"

Here is a quote from the movie "The Truman Show":

"We accept the world as it is presented to us, it's as simple as
that."
Post by Jerry Okamura
And if most of us are brainwashed, then it is our fault
for being brainwashed, isn't it?
Fault isn't the point. The point is that we need to change things.



http://www.ihr.org/ http://www.natvan.com http://www.nsm88.org

http://heretical.com/ http://immigration-globalization.blogspot.com/
Jerry Okamura
2011-08-05 01:02:33 UTC
Permalink
"Topaz" wrote in message news:***@4ax.com...

On Tue, 2 Aug 2011 14:26:23 -1000, "Jerry Okamura"
Post by Jerry Okamura
So, we are back to my original question. "They rule us" because we allow
them to rule us?
The movie "The Island" says:

"Everything we expose them to, their programs, their cartoons, books,
the games they play"


Which means what?

Here is a quote from the movie "The Truman Show":

"We accept the world as it is presented to us, it's as simple as
that."

So, then Truman agrees with what I said?
Post by Jerry Okamura
And if most of us are brainwashed, then it is our fault
for being brainwashed, isn't it?
Fault isn't the point. The point is that we need to change things.

But if the people can be brainwashed, how is change going to happen?
Rod Speed
2011-08-05 01:14:09 UTC
Permalink
Post by Topaz
On Tue, 2 Aug 2011 14:26:23 -1000, "Jerry Okamura"
Post by Jerry Okamura
So, we are back to my original question. "They rule us" because we
allow them to rule us?
"Everything we expose them to, their programs, their cartoons, books,
the games they play"
Which means what?
"We accept the world as it is presented to us, it's as simple as
that."
So, then Truman agrees with what I said?
Post by Jerry Okamura
And if most of us are brainwashed, then it is our fault
for being brainwashed, isn't it?
Fault isn't the point. The point is that we need to change things.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post by Topaz
But if the people can be brainwashed, how is change going to happen?
You get the brainwashers to brainwash them to want change.
Jerry Okamura
2011-08-06 00:24:48 UTC
Permalink
Post by Topaz
On Tue, 2 Aug 2011 14:26:23 -1000, "Jerry Okamura"
Post by Jerry Okamura
So, we are back to my original question. "They rule us" because we
allow them to rule us?
"Everything we expose them to, their programs, their cartoons, books,
the games they play"
Which means what?
"We accept the world as it is presented to us, it's as simple as
that."
So, then Truman agrees with what I said?
Post by Jerry Okamura
And if most of us are brainwashed, then it is our fault
for being brainwashed, isn't it?
Fault isn't the point. The point is that we need to change things.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post by Topaz
But if the people can be brainwashed, how is change going to happen?
You get the brainwashers to brainwash them to want change.

Oh, now that is a lousy solution to a perceived problem...
Rod Speed
2011-08-06 01:14:33 UTC
Permalink
Post by Nickname unavailable
Post by Topaz
On Tue, 2 Aug 2011 14:26:23 -1000, "Jerry Okamura"
Post by Jerry Okamura
So, we are back to my original question. "They rule us" because we
allow them to rule us?
"Everything we expose them to, their programs, their cartoons, books,
the games they play"
Which means what?
"We accept the world as it is presented to us, it's as simple as
that."
So, then Truman agrees with what I said?
Post by Jerry Okamura
And if most of us are brainwashed, then it is our fault
for being brainwashed, isn't it?
Fault isn't the point. The point is that we need to change things.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post by Topaz
But if the people can be brainwashed, how is change going to happen?
You get the brainwashers to brainwash them to want change.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post by Nickname unavailable
Oh, now that is a lousy solution to a perceived problem...
Nope, its what stopped you assaulting people and crapping on the carpet etc etc etc.
Jerry Okamura
2011-08-08 03:15:41 UTC
Permalink
Post by Nickname unavailable
Post by Topaz
On Tue, 2 Aug 2011 14:26:23 -1000, "Jerry Okamura"
Post by Jerry Okamura
So, we are back to my original question. "They rule us" because we
allow them to rule us?
"Everything we expose them to, their programs, their cartoons, books,
the games they play"
Which means what?
"We accept the world as it is presented to us, it's as simple as
that."
So, then Truman agrees with what I said?
Post by Jerry Okamura
And if most of us are brainwashed, then it is our fault
for being brainwashed, isn't it?
Fault isn't the point. The point is that we need to change things.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post by Topaz
But if the people can be brainwashed, how is change going to happen?
You get the brainwashers to brainwash them to want change.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post by Nickname unavailable
Oh, now that is a lousy solution to a perceived problem...
Nope, its what stopped you assaulting people and crapping on the carpet etc
etc etc.

You have never seen a posting of mine that insults people. When you use
words like "crapping on the carpet" in response to what I posted, you are
the one who is insulting people.....
Rod Speed
2011-08-08 05:52:19 UTC
Permalink
Post by Nickname unavailable
Post by Nickname unavailable
Post by Topaz
On Tue, 2 Aug 2011 14:26:23 -1000, "Jerry Okamura"
Post by Jerry Okamura
So, we are back to my original question. "They rule us" because we
allow them to rule us?
"Everything we expose them to, their programs, their cartoons,
books, the games they play"
Which means what?
"We accept the world as it is presented to us, it's as simple as
that."
So, then Truman agrees with what I said?
Post by Jerry Okamura
And if most of us are brainwashed, then it is our fault
for being brainwashed, isn't it?
Fault isn't the point. The point is that we need to change things.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post by Topaz
But if the people can be brainwashed, how is change going to happen?
You get the brainwashers to brainwash them to want change.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post by Nickname unavailable
Oh, now that is a lousy solution to a perceived problem...
Nope, its what stopped you assaulting people and crapping on the carpet etc etc etc.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post by Nickname unavailable
You have never seen a posting of mine that insults people.
Thats a lie.
Post by Nickname unavailable
When you use words like "crapping on the carpet" in response to what I posted, you are the one who is insulting
people.....
Wrong, as always. Its one way of describing the toilet training of children.

Nothing whatever to do with insulting anyone, stupid.

And you have just insulted me.

Topaz
2011-08-06 11:54:53 UTC
Permalink
On Thu, 4 Aug 2011 15:02:33 -1000, "Jerry Okamura"
Post by Jerry Okamura
But if the people can be brainwashed, how is change going to happen?
Only a party that is hated by the media can do that.


"The man who is not opposed and vilified and slandered in the
Jewish Press is not a staunch German and not a true National
Socialist. The best rule whereby the sincerity of his convictions, his
character and strength of will, can be measured is by the hostility
which his name arouses among the mortal enemies of our people.

"The followers of the movement, and indeed the whole nation,
must be reminded again and again of the fact that, through the medium
of his newspapers, the Jew is always spreading falsehood and that if
he tells the truth on some occasions it is only for the purpose of
masking some greater deceit, which turns the apparent truth into a
deliberate falsehood. The Jew is the Great Master of Lies. Falsehood
and duplicity are the weapons with which he fights.

"Every calumny and falsehood published by the Jews are tokens of
honor which can be worn by our comrades. He whom they decry most is
nearest to our hearts and he whom they mortally hate is our best
friend.

"If a comrade of ours opens a Jewish newspaper in the morning
and does not find himself vilified there, then he has spent yesterday
to no account. For if he had achieved something he would be
persecuted, slandered, derided and abused. Those who effectively
combat this mortal enemy of our people, who is at the same time the
enemy of all Aryan peoples and all culture, can only expect to arouse
opposition on the part of this race and become the object of its
slanderous attacks.

"When these truths become part of the flesh and blood, as it
were, of our members, then the movement will be impregnable and
invincible."

Mein Kampf



http://www.ihr.org/ http://www.natvan.com http://www.nsm88.org

http://heretical.com/ http://immigration-globalization.blogspot.com/
Jerry Okamura
2011-08-08 03:14:21 UTC
Permalink
If they are hated because of the media, and the "people" buy the story they
are selling, who is at fault, the media or the "people" who bought what the
media is feeding them?

"Topaz" wrote in message news:***@4ax.com...

On Thu, 4 Aug 2011 15:02:33 -1000, "Jerry Okamura"
Post by Jerry Okamura
But if the people can be brainwashed, how is change going to happen?
Only a party that is hated by the media can do that.


"The man who is not opposed and vilified and slandered in the
Jewish Press is not a staunch German and not a true National
Socialist. The best rule whereby the sincerity of his convictions, his
character and strength of will, can be measured is by the hostility
which his name arouses among the mortal enemies of our people.

"The followers of the movement, and indeed the whole nation,
must be reminded again and again of the fact that, through the medium
of his newspapers, the Jew is always spreading falsehood and that if
he tells the truth on some occasions it is only for the purpose of
masking some greater deceit, which turns the apparent truth into a
deliberate falsehood. The Jew is the Great Master of Lies. Falsehood
and duplicity are the weapons with which he fights.

"Every calumny and falsehood published by the Jews are tokens of
honor which can be worn by our comrades. He whom they decry most is
nearest to our hearts and he whom they mortally hate is our best
friend.

"If a comrade of ours opens a Jewish newspaper in the morning
and does not find himself vilified there, then he has spent yesterday
to no account. For if he had achieved something he would be
persecuted, slandered, derided and abused. Those who effectively
combat this mortal enemy of our people, who is at the same time the
enemy of all Aryan peoples and all culture, can only expect to arouse
opposition on the part of this race and become the object of its
slanderous attacks.

"When these truths become part of the flesh and blood, as it
were, of our members, then the movement will be impregnable and
invincible."

Mein Kampf



http://www.ihr.org/ http://www.natvan.com http://www.nsm88.org

http://heretical.com/ http://immigration-globalization.blogspot.com/
Rod Speed
2011-08-08 05:49:59 UTC
Permalink
Post by Jerry Okamura
If they are hated because of the media, and the "people" buy the
story they are selling, who is at fault, the media or the "people"
who bought what the media is feeding them?
Its never that binary, stupid.
Post by Jerry Okamura
On Thu, 4 Aug 2011 15:02:33 -1000, "Jerry Okamura"
Post by Jerry Okamura
But if the people can be brainwashed, how is change going to happen?
Only a party that is hated by the media can do that.
"The man who is not opposed and vilified and slandered in the
Jewish Press is not a staunch German and not a true National
Socialist. The best rule whereby the sincerity of his convictions, his
character and strength of will, can be measured is by the hostility
which his name arouses among the mortal enemies of our people.
"The followers of the movement, and indeed the whole nation,
must be reminded again and again of the fact that, through the medium
of his newspapers, the Jew is always spreading falsehood and that if
he tells the truth on some occasions it is only for the purpose of
masking some greater deceit, which turns the apparent truth into a
deliberate falsehood. The Jew is the Great Master of Lies. Falsehood
and duplicity are the weapons with which he fights.
"Every calumny and falsehood published by the Jews are tokens of
honor which can be worn by our comrades. He whom they decry most is
nearest to our hearts and he whom they mortally hate is our best
friend.
"If a comrade of ours opens a Jewish newspaper in the morning
and does not find himself vilified there, then he has spent yesterday
to no account. For if he had achieved something he would be
persecuted, slandered, derided and abused. Those who effectively
combat this mortal enemy of our people, who is at the same time the
enemy of all Aryan peoples and all culture, can only expect to arouse
opposition on the part of this race and become the object of its
slanderous attacks.
"When these truths become part of the flesh and blood, as it
were, of our members, then the movement will be impregnable and
invincible."
Mein Kampf
http://www.ihr.org/ http://www.natvan.com http://www.nsm88.org
http://heretical.com/ http://immigration-globalization.blogspot.com/
Michael Price
2011-08-02 07:29:37 UTC
Permalink
Post by Topaz
On Tue, 26 Jul 2011 11:17:11 -1000, "Jerry Okamura"
Post by Jerry Okamura
What is wrong with legalizing drugs
http://www.wsu.edu/~dee/CHING/OPIUM.HTM
 Growing opium in India, the East India Company shipped tons of opium
into Canton which it traded for Chinese manufactured goods and for
tea. This trade had produced, quite literally, a country filled with
drug addicts, as opium parlors proliferated all throughout China in
the early part of the nineteenth century... The effects on Chinese
society were devastating. In fact, there are few periods in Chinese
history that approach the early nineteenth century in terms of pure
human misery and tragedy. In an effort to stem the tragedy, the
imperial government made opium illegal in 1836 and began to
aggressively close down the opium dens.
What is the evidence that the early nineteenth century was even
worse than average
let alone that there are "few periods in Chinese history that approach
the early nineteenth
century"?

http://www.economics.harvard.edu/faculty/miron/files/opiumwars_ael.pdf
"The key fact is that the data show no increase in export growth after
legalization. If
anything, the trend line becomes less steep around legalization, and
it eventually turns downward.
If legalization increased consumption, exports should have grown
faster after legalization, barring
a substantial substitution by China toward domestically produced
opium. If this occurred,
however, exports prices should have fallen.
Figure 2 shows the price of exports. The price is volatile early in
the 19th century. Prices
appear to have increased (slightly) rather than decreased after
legalization, the opposite of what
should have occurred due to substitution by the Chinese from imported
to domestic opium.
Regressions of the quantity or price of opium exports on the price
of rice (as a proxy for
the inverse of income), a quadratic trend, and a dummy for the
legalization period confirm the
impression provided by the figures: there was no perceptible change in
export quantity or price
after legalization.

IV. Conclusions
China’s legalization of opium in 1858 was not associated with a
perceptible increase in
opium consumption. This conclusion is subject to the caveat that it
rests on export data, but it is
suggestive nevertheless."
So prohibition completely failed to achieve the goals claimed for
it. Pwned again, Topaz.
Post by Topaz
Post by Jerry Okamura
and prostitution?
Poor people can be exploited.
Oh no, poor people can be "exploited" in other words offered a deal
they like but you don't.
Post by Topaz
Post by Jerry Okamura
 Can you stop people
from being greedy?  How can you stop people from being greedy?
Yes.  JP Morgan said that a business leader should not be allowed to
make more than 20 times the average wage of his non executive workers.
Hey shithead, I pwned you on this years. Remember? The thing
about
it resulting in mass unemployment for lower skilled workers when
owners
fire them and replace them with lesser numbers of higher paid
workers?
The problem of the return on billion dollar projects being effectively
nominal
under your moronic ideas. Fuck off Nazi shitbag.
Post by Topaz
This shares the wealth. A business leader may be forced to pay his
workers more, while at the same time this idea keeps plenty of
incentives for business leaders to start new businesses.
Yeah, specifically it keeps plenty of incentives to start businesses
that
won't produce much value as long as they employ highly paid people and
can be run simultainiously with lots of other businesses. Why this is
good is best left for your insane logic to explain.
Post by Topaz
Post by Jerry Okamura
Can you stop people of different races from marrying each other?
Yes, it was outlawed in the past.
Nobody asked whether it was outlawed, we asked if you could stop it.
Post by Topaz
Post by Jerry Okamura
 Should we stop people of different races from marrying each other?
Yes, we should preserve the White race.
<snip the usual Nazi shit>
Topaz
2011-08-03 00:13:29 UTC
Permalink
On Tue, 2 Aug 2011 00:29:37 -0700 (PDT), Michael Price
Post by Michael Price
Post by Topaz
On Tue, 26 Jul 2011 11:17:11 -1000, "Jerry Okamura"
Post by Jerry Okamura
What is wrong with legalizing drugs
http://www.wsu.edu/~dee/CHING/OPIUM.HTM
 Growing opium in India, the East India Company shipped tons of opium
into Canton which it traded for Chinese manufactured goods and for
tea. This trade had produced, quite literally, a country filled with
drug addicts, as opium parlors proliferated all throughout China in
the early part of the nineteenth century... The effects on Chinese
society were devastating. In fact, there are few periods in Chinese
history that approach the early nineteenth century in terms of pure
human misery and tragedy. In an effort to stem the tragedy, the
imperial government made opium illegal in 1836 and began to
aggressively close down the opium dens.
What is the evidence that the early nineteenth century was even
worse than average
let alone that there are "few periods in Chinese history that approach
the early nineteenth
century"?
The opium dens.
Post by Michael Price
Post by Topaz
Post by Jerry Okamura
and prostitution?
Poor people can be exploited.
Oh no, poor people can be "exploited" in other words offered a deal
they like but you don't.
If we abolished capitalism and libertarianism they wouldn't be
exploited.
Post by Michael Price
Post by Topaz
Yes.  JP Morgan said that a business leader should not be allowed to
make more than 20 times the average wage of his non executive workers.
Hey shithead,
I don't write to shit people, sorry.


http://www.ihr.org/ http://www.natvan.com http://www.nsm88.org

http://heretical.com/ http://immigration-globalization.blogspot.com/
Topaz
2011-07-21 20:52:07 UTC
Permalink
On Wed, 20 Jul 2011 09:23:22 -1000, "Jerry Okamura"
Post by Jerry Okamura
The real fight it seems to me, is a fight over freedom and independence.
How much of which do we really want?
by Erich Gliebe

Since hindsight is 20/20, we can look back now and say that,
unfortunately, the Founding Fathers were more worried about freedom
than about race. Their viewpoint is understandable; in their day,
pretty much everyone was White, and it was assumed that things would
stay that way. Blacks were a tiny and enslaved minority, and it was
assumed that things would stay that way. The media didn't have nearly
the power that it has today, and no Jews controlled the media that did
exist, and it was assumed that things would stay that way.

And so the Founding Fathers spent most of their time tackling the
problems that were the most pressing to them: a system of government
based on a checks-and-balances system, freedom of speech and of the
press, freedom of religion, the right to keep and bear arms, freedom
from unreasonable searches and seizures, and so on. Their attempt to
lay out a non-tyrannical system of government resulted in the United
States Constitution, and the Bill of Rights served to limit, as best
the Fathers could foresee, the potentially-intrusive power of that
government.

So, despite the understanding that the new nation was - to the core -
a White nation that was meant to remain White, the Founding Fathers
didn't explicitly make the United States a White racial state. They
didn't put the White race at the top of their list of priorities
because everyone was on the same page on the matter. It was understood
that temporary agreements might be made with the Indians, but
virtually all White Americans at the time of the nation's founding
viewed the relationship between Whites and Indians as a "Them vs. Us"
relationship. There might be temporary alliances…but only temporary
ones. Blacks were valuable as workers on the plantations, but they
were definitely second- or third-class citizens. Of course, today we
know that NO number of non-Whites must be permitted within the White
racial state that we in the National Alliance envision, but we'll deal
with that later.

A hundred and fifty years later, when Adolf Hitler came to power in
Germany, he and many other National Socialists from every nation in
Europe clearly understood the need to be explicit about race. From
years of contact with Jews in Germany and from seeing the debilitating
effect of integration and mongrelization on the vitality of
neighboring France, Hitler made race the foremost issue throughout
Germany, and hundreds of thousands of non-German Europeans welcomed
his putting race at the front and center of European politics. From
the open-arms welcome that German troops received throughout much of
conquered Europe - especially in Eastern Europe, where the people knew
firsthand of the communist poison - to the volunteer military units of
every European nationality that were formed to destroy that poison, it
was clear to Europeans at the time that National Socialism, far from
being merely a Pan-German Folk movement, was a new philosophy that was
meant to embrace the entire White race.

But the Founding Fathers lacked the long-term, close contact with the
non-White races that the National Socialists knew about in the 1920s
and 1930s, and that we know about today. And because they focused on
freedom rather than racial integrity, the Founding Fathers
inadvertently have put us in the position today in which we have
nearly lost BOTH our freedom and our racial integrity.

The love of freedom is a trait that all humans possess to some degree
but, according to the late founder of the National Alliance, Dr.
William L. Pierce, our race has a particularly strong regard for
individual freedom. We don't like to be told what to do, and we'll
continue doing what we don't what to do for only so long. Furthermore,
we don't like to be told what to think: what's right and what's wrong,
which ideas about God are correct, and so on.

The love of these freedoms is what drove our European ancestors by the
millions to make the journey to America to start a new life. Some
wanted the freedom to worship as they wished to. Some came in search
of land and opportunity. But in every case, it all boiled down to
freedom: freedom to think and act how they wanted to, freedom to be
their own masters on land that provided for their needs and brought in
an adequate income as well, and freedom to live in peace without the
interference of tyrannical rulers whose concerns were more focused on
keeping the royal coffers filled than on the well-being of the people.

And the nation that the Founding Fathers constructed was a direct
reflection of these shared values regarding freedom. Individual
freedom was maximized and the power of the government that was
agreed-upon to be necessary was kept to a minimum. With the
Constitution and the Bill of Rights, it seemed that a utopia on Earth
had finally been achieved, and that utopian vision is still the one
that is pumped into the heads of American schoolchildren, despite the
fact that it is pure fantasy.

There were two problems with the new democratic system as it was set
up by the Founding Fathers. The first, which I've already mentioned,
was that there was very little explicit reference to race, and there
was very little put into place that was meant to ensure the racial
integrity of the nation. This flaw will prove fatal in the end, as we
are clearly seeing in everything that goes on around us today. Even
before the nation was one hundred years old, this flaw had created a
rift in the country that led to the Civil War which, unfortunately,
only weakened the White racial stock of the country and did nothing in
the way of fixing this flaw. In fact, eventually, the Civil War only
led to even more breaches of the wall of racial integrity. Explicit
White racialism from Day One - rather than implicit racialism - might
have channeled the energies of the nation into more productive
channels over the past two centuries.

Anyway, the other problem with the new democratic system was the
assumption that every man - or, in the words of the Naturalization Act
of 1790, every "free white person" - will take an active interest in
the governance of the nation. In other words, the idea of a government
"by the people" is a myth. Most people are far more concerned with
their own lives than with the activities of government and,
furthermore, most either don't want to take the time or don't have the
mental wherewithal to understand all of the policies and actions of
government. The only time that most people start paying close
attention to what the government is doing is when its actions directly
affect their lives and livelihoods. In a letter to John Hancock,
George Washington complained about the self-centeredness among the men
of the Continental Army:
"When men are irritated, & the Passions inflamed, they fly hastily,
and chearfully to Arms, but after the first emotions are over to
expect that they are influenced by any other principles than those of
Interest, is to look for what never did, & I fear never will happen."

So, contrary to the assumptions of a supposedly freedom-loving
democracy, self-interest rules the roost, and participating actively
in running the country is way down on the list of priorities for most
people. And that is a good thing, because if everyone wanted to
actively participate in governing the country, it would be total
chaos. Nothing would ever get done, and a smoothly-running society
would be out of the question.

Unfortunately, because there were essentially no explicit principles
of White racialism in the founding of America, a certain group with an
egomaniacal self-interest took advantage of the freedoms that WERE
explicit and soon came to dominate the nation. That group, of course,
was the Jews. In this country, they started out mainly in the world of
trade and commerce, and later moved into finance and the fledgling
mass media. Today, our country is riddled with them, from the media
moguls and the financial giants to the advisors of government and the
"leading thinkers and doers" in every field of endeavor.

And obviously, the weight of the media contributes to Jewish
advancement everywhere. That is WHY there are so many Jewish stars in
music and Hollywood; that is WHY Jews seem to be at the top of every
field of endeavor; that is WHY Israel is venerated by every mass media
outlet; that is WHY most Americans probably think that criticizing the
Jews is a criminal offense, even though it isn't - YET.

And the Jewish establishment now uses the American government, which
was established to preserve freedom, to take away the right of Iraqis
and Afghans to rule themselves. The Jewish establishment now uses the
American government to take away the rights of American citizens so
that illegal immigrants can further pollute what's left of the White
racial gene pool in this country.

On July 4, 1776, the Declaration of Independence was signed on the
understanding that it was immoral for one political entity to coerce
another to do its bidding. The Constitution and the Bill of Rights
were signed on the understanding that it was immoral for the state to
coerce its citizens to think and act in a certain way. The freedoms
that Americans have taken for granted for more than two centuries are
meant to protect U.S. citizens from coercion - from having to do what
someone else wants one to do.

Unfortunately, the Jews have taken those freedoms, used them to gain
their present posts of power, and are now flexing that power to coerce
the rest of us to think and act like THEY want us to. They WANT us to
welcome more and more non-Whites into our country. They WANT our young
people to turn away from their own racial heritage, to become
Africanized through Black music, and to court and wed non-Whites. And
the freedoms that we have to speak out against all of this? They want
to destroy them.

White racialists want freedom for our race. We see what a multiracial
society does to all of its members, and we are tired of being coerced
by a Jewish establishment that cares not a whit for our freedoms,
either the freedom of our whole race or our freedom to speak out
against what we see as wrong, not to mention our freedom to defend
ourselves by force of arms.

On this Independence Day weekend, I'd like you to imagine the spirit
of excitement and unity that would pulse through the all-White nation
that we in the National Alliance are striving to bring into being. And
then I'd like you to choose to do something about it, by joining
forces with me and the other members of the National Alliance. With an
all-White nation with an explicitly racialist foundation, our racial
freedoms and our individual freedoms will pave the way for a new and
glorious future for our people.



http://www.ihr.org/ http://www.natvan.com http://www.nsm88.org

http://heretical.com/ http://immigration-globalization.blogspot.com/
Bret Cahill
2011-07-22 14:31:17 UTC
Permalink
The real fight is getting libertarians and GOP "market" economists to
stop dodging The Question.
Post by Jerry Okamura
The real fight it seems to me, is a fight over freedom and independence.
How much of which do we really want?
      "The fight which Fascist Italy waged against Jewry's three
principal weapons, the profound reasons for which may not have been
consciously understood (though I do not believe this myself) furnishes
the best proof that the poison fangs of that Power which transcends
all State boundaries are being drawn, even though in an indirect way.
The prohibition of Freemasonry and secret societies, the suppression
of the supranational Press and the definite abolition of Marxism,
together with  the steadily increasing consolidation of the Fascist
concept of the State--all this will enable the Italian Government, in
the course of some years, to advance more and more the interests of
the Italian people without paying any attention to the hissing of the
Jewish world-hydra.
       "The English situation is not so favorable. In that country
which has 'the freest democracy' the Jew dictates his will, almost
unrestrained but indirectly, through his influence on public opinion."
http://www.ihr.org/   http://www.natvan.com http://www.nsm88.org
http://heretical.com/ http://immigration-globalization.blogspot.com/
Jerry Okamura
2011-07-23 21:56:26 UTC
Permalink
I hate to say this but you are an outright liar....I for one have answered
your questions many times in the past.

"Bret Cahill" wrote in message news:d8d85f43-a42f-4982-8c88-***@e20g2000prf.googlegroups.com...

The real fight is getting libertarians and GOP "market" economists to
stop dodging The Question.
Post by Jerry Okamura
The real fight it seems to me, is a fight over freedom and independence.
How much of which do we really want?
Michael Price
2011-07-25 02:27:46 UTC
Permalink
Post by Bret Cahill
The real fight is getting libertarians and GOP "market" economists to
stop dodging The Question.
The real fight is getting you to admit we answered these questions
literally
years ago liar. So why keep making this point that was debunked years
ago?
Why not spend the time answering The Real Question?
Post by Bret Cahill
Post by Jerry Okamura
The real fight it seems to me, is a fight over freedom and independence.
How much of which do we really want?
      "The fight which Fascist Italy waged against Jewry's three
principal weapons, the profound reasons for which may not have been
consciously understood (though I do not believe this myself) furnishes
the best proof that the poison fangs of that Power which transcends
all State boundaries are being drawn, even though in an indirect way.
The prohibition of Freemasonry and secret societies, the suppression
of the supranational Press and the definite abolition of Marxism,
together with  the steadily increasing consolidation of the Fascist
concept of the State--all this will enable the Italian Government, in
the course of some years, to advance more and more the interests of
the Italian people without paying any attention to the hissing of the
Jewish world-hydra.
       "The English situation is not so favorable. In that country
which has 'the freest democracy' the Jew dictates his will, almost
unrestrained but indirectly, through his influence on public opinion."
http://www.ihr.org/  http://www.natvan.com http://www.nsm88.org
http://heretical.com/ http://immigration-globalization.blogspot.com/
livvy
2011-08-05 05:04:19 UTC
Permalink
Post by Jerry Okamura
      "The fight which Fascist Italy waged against Jewry's three
principal weapons, the profound reasons for which may not have been
consciously understood (though I do not believe this myself) furnishes
the best proof that the poison fangs of that Power which transcends
all State boundaries are being drawn, even though in an indirect way.
The prohibition of Freemasonry and secret societies, the suppression
of the supranational Press and the definite abolition of Marxism,
together with  the steadily increasing consolidation of the Fascist
concept of the State--all this will enable the Italian Government, in
the course of some years, to advance more and more the interests of
the Italian people without paying any attention to the hissing of the
Jewish world-hydra.
       "The English situation is not so favorable. In that country
which has 'the freest democracy' the Jew dictates his will, almost
unrestrained but indirectly, through his influence on public opinion."
http://www.ihr.org/   http://www.natvan.com http://www.nsm88.org
http://heretical.com/ http://immigration-globalization.blogspot.com/
Really? Mein Kampf? That's how you want to present yourself?
Would be ok if you had any education or religious background, and put
it out there as a matter of study. A well-known, well-studied
doeument. World history (you're obviously not familiar with the
words). But you put it out there as a "thing", ooh, look what I
got. You want to present stuff, know of what you speak. You
clearly don't....must be nice to have so much goof time.
Topaz
2011-08-06 15:11:53 UTC
Permalink
Here are some quotes from Mein Kampf:

"The man who is not opposed and vilified and slandered in the
Jewish Press is not a staunch German and not a true National
Socialist. The best rule whereby the sincerity of his convictions, his
character and strength of will, can be measured is by the hostility
which his name arouses among the mortal enemies of our people.

"The followers of the movement, and indeed the whole nation,
must be reminded again and again of the fact that, through the medium
of his newspapers, the Jew is always spreading falsehood and that if
he tells the truth on some occasions it is only for the purpose of
masking some greater deceit, which turns the apparent truth into a
deliberate falsehood. The Jew is the Great Master of Lies. Falsehood
and duplicity are the weapons with which he fights.

"Every calumny and falsehood published by the Jews are tokens of
honor which can be worn by our comrades. He whom they decry most is
nearest to our hearts and he whom they mortally hate is our best
friend.

"If a comrade of ours opens a Jewish newspaper in the morning
and does not find himself vilified there, then he has spent yesterday
to no account. For if he had achieved something he would be
persecuted, slandered, derided and abused. Those who effectively
combat this mortal enemy of our people, who is at the same time the
enemy of all Aryan peoples and all culture, can only expect to arouse
opposition on the part of this race and become the object of its
slanderous attacks.

"When these truths become part of the flesh and blood, as it
were, of our members, then the movement will be impregnable and
invincible."

" Then I began to examine my favorite 'World Press', with that fact
before my mind. "The deeper my soundings went the lesser grew my
respect for that Press which I formerly admired. Its style became
still more repellant and I was forced to reject its ideas as entirely
shallow and superficial. To claim that in the presentation of facts
and views its attitude was impartial seemed to me to contain more
falsehood than truth. The writers were- Jews.

"Thousands of details that I had scarcely noticed before seemed
to me now to deserve attention. I began to grasp and understand
things which I had formerly looked at in a different light."

"Thus another weapon beside that of freemasonry would have to be
secured. This was the Press. The Jew exercised all his skill and
tenacity in getting hold of it. By means of the Press he began
gradually to control public life in its entirety."


http://www.ihr.org/ http://www.natvan.com http://www.nsm88.org

http://heretical.com/ http://immigration-globalization.blogspot.com/
Topaz
2011-07-20 10:07:49 UTC
Permalink
Here is a quote from Mein Kampf:

"The fight which Fascist Italy waged against Jewry's three
principal weapons, the profound reasons for which may not have been
consciously understood (though I do not believe this myself) furnishes
the best proof that the poison fangs of that Power which transcends
all State boundaries are being drawn, even though in an indirect way.
The prohibition of Freemasonry and secret societies, the suppression
of the supranational Press and the definite abolition of Marxism,
together with the steadily increasing consolidation of the Fascist
concept of the State--all this will enable the Italian Government, in
the course of some years, to advance more and more the interests of
the Italian people without paying any attention to the hissing of the
Jewish world-hydra.
"The English situation is not so favorable. In that country
which has 'the freest democracy' the Jew dictates his will, almost
unrestrained but indirectly, through his influence on public opinion."


http://www.ihr.org/ http://www.natvan.com http://www.nsm88.org

http://heretical.com/ http://immigration-globalization.blogspot.com/
Bret Cahill
2011-07-20 15:13:38 UTC
Permalink
Last week Cal Thomas suddenly discovered separation of church and
state so it's obviously a coordinated effort, maybe intentionally
transparent.

The GOP establishment knows if they don't stop her now the "liberal"
establishment media will stop her after the nomination.

Apparently theu know Palin isn't really going to run.


Bret Cahill
Post by Nickname unavailable
conservative/libertarian/fascist darling is most likely insane:when
you live in a alternate reality, do not be to surprised if your brain
fights back:Bachmann Campaign Disputes Report That Migraine Headaches
Incapacitate Candidate
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/07/19/michele-bachmann-migraine-he...
Michele Bachmann Campaign Disputes Report That Migraine Headaches
'Incapacitate' Candidate
First Posted: 7/19/11 11:24 AM ET Updated: 7/19/11 01:23 PM ET
Republican presidential candidate Michele Bachmann's campaign is
pushing back against a story published online by the Daily Caller on
Monday night suggesting the conservative congresswoman suffers from
headaches that can "incapacitate" her for days.
Dave Dziok, a former communications director for Bachmann, told the
Daily Caller that when he informed the congresswoman of his intention
to leave his job with her after more than two years, Bachmann
experienced medical symptoms that landed her in the hospital "within
24 hours." Dziok said that he and his former boss were on relatively
good terms at the time of his departure.
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